Why saying No Thanks is the progressive option.
This is a golden time for democracy in Scotland. The media, the airwaves are full of political debate but more than that, the whole nation is debating what we should do next. Who wouldn’t want that new democratic passion to be spread wider than Scotland’s borders?
That’s a real question. It appears that many progressive people will be satisfied by a vote that would result in our turning our backs on much that is wrong in the UK and being thus unable to help put it right. How much more progressive to grasp the momentum and press for change in the whole of the UK.
It is good that we debate whether we are a caring society. It is good that there are people in Scotland interested in addressing the plight of the poor. However, progressive people don’t just exist on one side of this argument and those in need don’t just exist on one side of the border. There is a pressing case for staying together as a country and using the energies of this referendum debate to fuel new political movements to address all that is wrong in society. I care as much about the poor in Carlisle as I care about the poor in Carluke. I care as much about the NHS in Preston as I do about the NHS in Perth. I care as much about job creation in Sunderland as much as I care about job creation in Stirling. I want all to prosper and want my MP to fight not only for my interests but for the common good of all in the UK, forming alliances with other progressive politicians to bring about a fairer, better and more economically stable society.
But just because I’m going to vote No, that doesn’t mean I don’t want change. I long for change – real change for the whole of the UK and the only way to still be able to influence the change I hope for is to say No Thanks to separation.
I want a more federal UK. Lots of people do. The only way to be sure it will never ever happen is to say Yes to separation from the rest of the UK.
It isn’t simply more devolution that is needed for Scotland – we need something much more radical. If devolution has been good for Scotland then it will be good for England too. A federal system within a strong, united economy would bring not only the best for me but also the best for those most in need. Separation will not bring about devo-max – it is a rejection of that. Separation would bring about austerity-plus, damaging economic recovery not only in Scotland but throughout the other parts of the UK. And when austerity is the dominant theme of the economic cycle it seems to me that those who are poor and vulnerable tend to come out of things worse that those at the top of the pile, no matter who is in government.
I want a renewed democracy that is UK-wide. I want a new commitment to the vulnerable that is UK-wide. I want progressive people to be running a progressive economy that is UK-wide. And the greatest risk to what I hope for comes from those who believe it can never happen. As someone who was involved close to the beginning of the recent campaign to allow gay couples to get married, I know that the greatest trouble comes not from opponents but from those who say, “I’m on your side but it will never happen”. Real change in society is desirable and possible. The energy of the referendum campaign shows, like the energy surrounding the gay marriage campaigns, just how passionate people can become over things that they care about.
As a priest, I care about people and I care about society. For me, I can’t see those who are vulnerable anywhere in Scotland doing well in a society that has such an unstable economic beginning as that proposed by the Yes campaign who still can’t answer even the most basic questions about currency and long term debt.
Those who are arguing for a Yes vote sometimes speak as though it is the only option for political progressives. I want change in the UK and the changes I want can only be achieved by saying Thanks, but No Thanks – my ambition for reform is far greater than what is currently proposed.
Who wouldn’t want real progressive change in society to be for everyone in the UK? Who would want to turn their back on being able to bring positive influence to bear for the many and not just the Caledonian few.
For all these reasons – it is No Thanks from me.
Kelvin your aspirations are admirable = but precisely who is it that you think is going to take care of the NHS in Preston? Labour hobbled the English NHS with literally billions of pounds of PFI debt, while the Tories and Lib Dems are busy selling it off. I’d hope people will vote Green and more are doing so, but how can you ask Scots, who clearly reject this neoliberal rightwing consensus that is gripping English politics (which arithmetically dominate the UK)?
to continue to endure something they don’t want? How is that democratic? And how many decades will it take to create this federal system you want? It’s not on the table.
Kelvin you’re deploying your considerable charisma and well-earned respect to presume to preach on politics, specifically to challenge the long-held aspirations for self-determination of a people in whose country your ethnicity and accent accord you an elite status. And you’re coming across as naive and uninformed. Some discernment may be in order and the humility to take the time to get better informed. Read http://radicalindependence.org/ and http://www.womenforindependence.org/ and http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/ and think again. Non Angeli sed Angli. Are you really on the side of the Angels?
Ah, Scottishness is an ethnicity. And I don’t possess it. Is that what the referendum and its associated questions is actually about?
No it isn’t, and well you know it! Politically, Scottishness is a civic concept, not an ethnic one. Anyone who wants to live here is a Scot. That’s why you have a vote in the Referendum.
i have lived,studied and worked in Scotland (became a born again Christian)
so admire many things about Scotland (apart from deep fried mars Bar).
As an Englishman i think I should have some say in the matter as should the Welsh,
and Northern Irish.I agree with what you are saying about the forthcoming vote.
I remember my coach trip to Stirling from London twenty years ago and the coach driver Shuggie, saying:”I hope you all have your passports!”which did nae fool me.I don’t think everything has been fully thought through and emotions are taking over the proud Scots.Anyway God bless Scotland whatever happens.
The joking remark about passports reminded me that I did have to show my passport as I was flying, from London to Inverness. I can only pray that all goes well on the 18th. I have been back in Scotland for about 5 years. The one thing that really annoys me is the attitude of many, who work for the NHS. The comments are mainly put across as if I am an ignorant cretin, I was left untreated whilst I was having a silent M. I. When I collapsed then but only then did I get treatment which should have been started immediately. There are many other’s, but I am not going to bore people to death.
. May the Lord! God bless you and keep in his love. Amen
At the moment the SNP has a big advantage in the Scottish Parliament because it can consider social and economic problems for Scotland and propose solutions to them, whether you think they are good or bad solutions is another matter. Labour and Lib Dems can consider problems and propose solutions only if they fit with their UK party’s agenda. This is a big limiting factor ends up with poorly designed and unfocused policy in comparison, and under resourced, low-morale and sidelined Scottish parties. Also Labour and Lib Dems have their Westminster bosses doing and saying things that massively put off their Scottish grass roots members (tuition fees, bedroom tax abstention, trident) – SNP doesn’t have this problem. The rise in the SNP vote in 07, 11 and high popularity and job rating maybe comes simply from the simplicity of their focus.
Maybe Scottish folk aren’t drawn to independence so much because they want SNP/Salmond but because they want better Scottish parties and processes. Labour and Lib Dems have lost so many members and votes in the last 10 years, and it’s clear from evidence of Johann Lamont, Wendy Alexander, Nicol Stephen, Willie Rennie, how no difficult it is to discuss Scottish issues filtered through Westminster HQs. Devo Max won’t solve this. It is not a question of power, it is a question of procedure and representation. The Scots might get a lot of new problems after a yes vote but they might also get back independence for their parties and a reinvigorated parliament instead of a one party state. It is possible that more Lab and Lib Dem sympathisers will vote Yes on Thursday than voted Lab or LD in2011. That suggests that people think the current Scottish Parliament system is stifling good politics.
In the absence of any other alternative options in the ballot, and any realistic prospect of reform after a no (which no Better Together parties have shown interest in until this week’s hurried planning) we should maybe understand if people vote yes in the hope of a better democracy in the longer term, but also aware of the risk of shorter term difficulties.
I hope if it is a no that some people who’ve made these arguments will commit themselves to involvement in reform campaigning. I have a feeling that Lib, Lab and Con will quickly move on to planning how to capture the voters of Middle England in May 2016.
Well, I’d start with Lords reform and a federal solution to the West Lothian question. But then I’ve stood for parliament on such a ticket so can hardly be said not to have been doing my bit.
Then I’d just add that it is a shame the parties haven’t proposed the reforms you’ve previously supported in this referendum debate. There is no other proposed route to discussion or reform, no enthusiasm for it in any of the main WM parties. There’s a relatively small core of loyal Nats, not enough to win it. If it is a yes it will be fed-up past LDs and Labour folk who will swing it – voting yes in the hope of something, rather than no in the almost certain inevitability of nothing.
Kelvin don’t patronise me and don’t reduce the complexity of my argument to a straw man soundbite. Hegemony conceals its power. This is NOT about England or the English. It’s about Scotland. That’s the point. Your basic argument is that we’re selfish to demand self-determination. The male-dominated Left said that about women, the het-dominated women’s movement said that about lesbians and every centralist party says that about autonomous movements. Don’t you dare accuse me of anti-English sentiment. You know better than that. I understand that some twit on Twitter got nasty. There are unbalanced people on both sides. We may disagree but we do respect each other and if I was to reject the English I’d have to split myself in two so no more of that nonsense. Now, perhaps you’d care to examine the issues carefully raised by the thoughtful contributors to this blogpost, giving due respect to the gravity of issues involved. Or you could carry on enjoying your unexamined elite status here while we enjoy Pax Americana.
You introduced ethnicity into your argument Alan and I’m struggling to hear anything other than that comment. I’m sure that’s my fault, but that’s all I can hear right now.
We DO have the power to change Scotland. We DON’T have the power to change the UK as a whole. That’s why, if you want change, voting YES is a no-brainer.
I take the point about the worst opponents being allies who say that what you want is impossible, but I would say that the converse of that is allowing perfect to be the enemy of good. A Yes vote allows us to work on building a better country here and now, not trying to exert leverage over an adjacent nation 10 times our size. Our only hope of influencing England is to by example – if we build a prosperous, socially just Scotland then it will inspire the forces of reform in England. A No vote means business as usual, and may well mean the right double down on austerity and tax cuts for the wealthy, knowing that there is nothing we can do to stop it.
Actually Kelvin you seem to be struggling to hear the majority of points raised as you don’t appear to be listening. Have you gone into belligerent campaign mode? I’m struggling to see you taking part in a dialogue here. Are you hurt? I think my English relatives are. They feel unloved and rejected. There has always been love both sides the Tweed and may there always be. But let it be freely given. Not all ties that bind are good. This 300 Union doesn’t feel like a wedding, so this isn’t a divorce. It feels like shackles, so this is liberation. I know you don’t feel that. That’s because in the colonialist economy of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, you and I are on different sides. It is in your interest, to continue your privilege, to mask that hegemony. That is why you attempt to silence my critique of colonialism with your charge of racism. In classic liberation theology Kelvin what you need to experience is not a cleverly convincing argument but an authentic experience of conversion. Liberation is also for the colonisers who are in an inauthentic relationship with those they paternally oppress. Challenging that inauthentic relationship is not rejection Kelvin. It is an invitation to freedom and to authentic love.
The trouble is that somehow we all have to live together afterwards – and I am not wholly sure how I am going to manage to recover quite the warmth of feeling towards some people after some of the things said – a warmth which came naturally before, but which, in the light of encounters in street and shop, a warmth which has now chilled to the lowest point of a January night.
As a child in Glasgow’s east end in the early 1960s I remember the threat behind the all too frequent question “Are you a Proddy or a Tim?”…… now it’s “Are you a ‘Yes’ or a ‘No’?” and if ‘No’, there is at best incredulity and at worst abuse, but almost always accusation, disappointment, and some level of derision. Somewhere in the atmosphere the word ‘traitor’ hovers……
Yes, Ruth, I have heard similar reports from a friend who has worked in Inverness for nearly 30 years, having moved from childhood home in the south side of Glasgow and after studying in Edinburgh. I’ve also heard similar stories from my sisters, both of whom live in Edinburgh. For a number of people, reason and respect do not come into it. That word definitely hovers, and it is both menacing and threatening.
Well said, Rosemary. Whatever ensues, there will be a great need for healing.