St Andrew's Day 2008

Let me just get this sorted out right now, a year in advance. Next year, St Andrew’s Day will be on Monday 1 December 2008. Yes, not Sunday 30 November. It can’t ever be on a Sunday.

Advent 1 always beats St Andrew, even in Scotland in the Scottish Episcopal Church. Christ the King always beats Andrew, even in Scotland too. Therefore, St Andrew can never be celebrated on a Sunday.

Got that? We love him dearly. We enjoy being under his patronage. And we don’t keep his feast on a Sunday. OK?

Never on a Sunday.

End of story.

(I might give an exemption to the congregation of St Andrews, St Andrews, but only because I trust them to have the good taste not to apply it).


  1. Moyra says

    But I know that!!

  2. Why????

  3. kelvin says

    Because Advent 1 always beats St Andrew, even in Scotland in the Scottish Episcopal Church. Christ the King always beats Andrew, even in Scotland too. Therefore, St Andrew can never be celebrated on a Sunday.

    What’s not to understand?

  4. Andrew CJ says

    One will have to put in a request for a special dispensation then. That’s all!

    That one’s own first Christian name is the same as the patron saint of Scots AND that one was born a mere four days to the good Saint’s own feast day are two of the reasons now put forward for the request…

  5. “Taste?”


  6. I second this request, my weight on this matter is that my middle name is Andrew, it would have been my Christian name I believe if I had been born 4 days earlier than I was.

  7. This sounds like an eccelestical version of Top Trumps. In the days that the Sunday preceeding Advent was merely called “Sunday Next Before” – otherwise known as “Stir Up Sunday”, could St Andrew be celebrated on that Sunday albeit it would have been the 23rd November.

    There is a litugical exposition required here that described not only what can be transfered, but why the church made this decision.

    I am sure in the past, there were occaisions when the Collect for the Saint’s day could be used in addition to the Sunday collect when it was transfered.

    It might also be thought that considering a lot of parishes do not have any services apart from on Sundays (and Christmas/Easter) they consider midweek festivals on the nearest Sunday.

  8. kelvin says

    No further exemptions. You are going to get a St Andrews Day, you are not losing out. If it were kept on the Sunday, you would miss out having Advent Sunday and then either Christmas or the Second Coming might be delayed, and that would never do.

    There is a bit of history about Christ the King (its a political feast, of course) on wikipedia here:

  9. When the Scottish Government declares St Andrew’s Day as a public holiday it will have to be on a weekday, so then never on a Saturday or Sunday.

    Apart from that Kelvin description and the Wikipedia article shows that in the Top Trumps face-off, St Andrew will alway lose out to a Sunday.

    (Now – with tongue very firmly in cheek – what about the return of “Stir Up Sunday” instead of “Christ the King”)

  10. …and wikipedia has a article on Stir Up Sunday as well.

  11. Christina says

    On a related theme, was there not a year recently when we had to move the assumption because it fell on Ash Wednesday? I don’t remember Christmas being delayed, but of course, can’t comment on the delay of the second coming.

  12. Christina says

    And I know I meant “annunciation” before you point it out to me.

  13. Rob Murray Brown says

    Is there a reason that the two celebrations cant be held on the same day? Do you really think that Christ would object to sharing a day with one of his disciples. I think not!

  14. I think that it is more about giving the church the full opportunity to concentrate on both.

    The themes that we remember at Christ the King (ie how Jesus undermines all our expectations of monarchy and power) don’t fit terribly well with theme we think about on St Andrew’s Day (thinking about missions and spreading faith in the world and also praying for Scotland). Advent 1 is something else altogether and also does not make a good fit.

    I quite like the way the calendar works as it is a good reminder to us that being God’s people is something that happens daily, not weekly.

  15. Rob Murray Brown says

    Im feel sure that your congregation would manage to digest more than one message on any particular day. The fact is that St Andrews Day is on the 30 November each year – every 7 or so years this will fall on a Sunday. I cant remember it ever being moved before and see no reason to start in 2009.

  16. Kelvin says

    St Andrews Day is on 1 December this year in the Scottish Episcopal Calendar as it is every year when 30 November falls on a Sunday.

    It is the way the Ecclesiastical calendar works.

    To quote fully from the published Calendar:

    Each Holy and Saint’s Day listed in the Calendar has been assigned a number which indicates its category.
    It is intended that feasts in categories 1 – 4 (below) should be kept by the whole Church. Days in categories 5 and
    6 may be kept according to diocesan or local discretion. Commemorations not included in this Calendar may be
    observed with the approval of the Bishop.
    When two celebrations fall on the same day, the following table indicates which takes precedence.
    1 Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Holy Saturday;
    Easter Day (and the weekdays following);
    Ash Wednesday; Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday in Holy Week; Ascension Day;
    Christmas Day ; Epiphany;
    Sundays of Advent, Lent and Easter.
    2 Feasts of The Lord (Naming, Presentation, Annunciation, Transfiguration);
    Trinity Sunday; All Saints’ Day;
    Dedication and Patronal Festivals;
    Eves of Christmas and Pentecost;
    First Sunday after Christmas;
    First Sunday after Epiphany (the Baptism of the Lord).
    3 Sundays after Christmas (except Christmas 1);
    Sundays after Epiphany (except Epiphany 1);
    Sundays after Pentecost (except Pentecost 1);
    Weekdays in Lent.
    4 Feasts of the Apostles and Evangelists;
    Saint Mary the Virgin, the Visit to Elizabeth;
    Joseph, John the Baptist (Birth, Beheading);
    Mary Magdalene; Michael and All Angels;
    Stephen, the Holy Innocents;
    Kentigern, Patrick, Columba, Ninian, Margaret of Scotland.
    5 All Souls’ Day; Holy Cross Day;
    Conception and Birth of Mary, Mother of the Lord;
    Thanksgiving for the Institution of the Holy Communion (Corpus Christi);
    Thanksgiving for Harvest.
    6 Other commemorations.
    (i) Epiphany may be kept on the Sunday following 1 January, and the Ascension on the Seventh Sunday of
    (ii) Feasts in Category 2, falling on a weekday, may be kept on the nearest Sunday, except Sundays in
    Categories 1 and 2.
    (iii) Feasts in Category 4, falling on a day of higher category (other than a weekday in Lent), should be
    transferred (in chronological order) to the next available weekday.
    (iv) Where feasts in Category 4 fall on a Sunday (other than a Sunday in Categories 1 and 2), they may, if local
    circumstances require, be kept on that day.
    (v) The weekdays of Advent and Easter may be given special weighting.
    (vi) When days in Category 6 coincide with a day of higher category, they should be omitted that year.
    (vii) Thanksgiving for the Institution of Holy Communion is particularly associated with the Thursday after
    Trinity Sunday.
    (viii) Thanksgiving for the Harvest may take place on any appropriate Sunday.

    The full thing can be found within this zip file:

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