• Conversations with Catholics (and others)

    KH in pulpit by the crucifix

    Over the next couple of weeks, I’m trying something new and a bit different at St Mary’s. I’m offering coffee and a chat to a couple of different kinds of  people who are always present within the congregation. Tomorrow morning (Saturday 9 January 2016) I’m having a coffee morning for people in the congregation who have Roman Catholic roots. There’s always a significant number of such people in St Mary’s and I thought it might be interesting to get some of us together for a chat. In a fortnight’s time I’ll be repeating the exercise with those who have a background as evangelicals. I’ll see how these go and then see whether  there’s any other groups which might want to meet. A  couple of people said that they grew up as presbyterians and they should have a coffee morning but I’m not sure whether that one is one to go for or not. Another possibility that I’ve thought of is a chat with those who fit the Spiritual Seeker profile – those who’ve meditated with Buddhists, banged their drums, sweated in their sweat lodges, spun in circles and knitted their own lentils. We’ve always got a fair representation from that constituency and it might be interesting to gather such people together.

    However, I’m starting with catholics because I know that those who come from a Roman Catholic background have a common conversation though not necessarily a common experience. Some come to St Mary’s who are quite clear that they are Roman Catholics still and that St Mary’s just happens to be a resting place for them on their journey. Others have an articulate conversation about what they have left behind and why they needed to move on from the Roman Catholic church and find something new. Rather intriguingly there’s a mix between those who come to St Mary’s because it allows them to live out their catholicism and those who come because it allows them to say that they’ve moved on from it.

    St Mary’s offers an interesting place for those with catholic roots to worship. For many there’s the surprise that the worship is just like the worship that they have known within Roman Catholicism.

    I once said to a liturgist that it wonderful, amazing and surprising that the modern Roman Catholic Mass was so similar to the liturgy of the Scottish Episcopal Church. “Not amazing at all!” he exclaimed – “we all of us, Romans and Anglicans and all the rest went to the same liturgy conferences in the 1970s”. Sadly in recent years with the new translation of the Roman Catholic mass into (terrible) English, we’ve moved a little further apart again but you can still very much recognise that things are essentially the same.

    I’m soemtimes puzzled by the reactions of Roman Catholics who find themselves present in St Mary’s. We often have tourists who come from Roman Catholics countries who presume that it is a Roman Catholic church. They do so even, in my experience, when a female colleague has been celebrating at the Sung Eucharist. This puzzles me. But also encourages me a little.

    For many from a catholic background we provide what they would have hoped for from their own church – a mass they recognise, social teaching on sexuality, marriage and divorce that is as positive as the catholic social teaching on economics that they believe in and a shared love and devotion to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist alongside a love for his mother too. There are no doubt negatives – the sorrow of families feeling parted by church divisions over the Eucharist. (Everyone is welcome to receive in St Mary’s but that doesn’t begin to scratch the deep irritations surrounding who is and who is not able to receive communion in various churches). There are also confusing messages that the Scottish Episcopal Church sends out about membership that we might talk about. People tend to know they are Roman Catholics and tend not to be entirely sure whether they are Scottish Episcopalians. That could well be part of the conversation.

    I’m looking forward to this and expect I’ll learn things. The invitation is open to anyone who wants to come and have a coffee with me in the Synod Hall on Saturday morning at 10.30.

10 responses to “Yesterday”

  1. David Avatar
    David

    Just to say the link to the BBC website is broken.

  2. asphodeline Avatar
    asphodeline

    The Sunday morning service on R4 is my regular church for now and it was brilliant to find it was with you yesterday.

    Loved the service and the music, as always, was wonderful.

  3. kelvin Avatar
    kelvin

    Thanks for the comments – the link is fixed now.

  4. Andrew Avatar
    Andrew

    Lovely to know that Bernard Porter is still about. One of the kindliest and most tolerant musicians this ex-tv producer ever worked with. He provided superb accompaniment to at least 4 major choral programmes, and an exuberant and beautifully played Voluntary in Holy Trinity, Ayr- in 1973. I can still hear it in my head.
    Thanks, Kelvin for a happy reminder.

  5. Victoria Avatar
    Victoria

    Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed listening to the service on BBC 4 on Sunday – meaty stuff with good quality music. Was pleasant listening when normally just want to reach for the ‘off’ button. But then I’m biased going to a SEC church myself with social justice and ecumenical concern at its centre and being a choral singer!

  6. Harry Monroe Avatar

    What a wonderful tribute to a real gentleman. Sang under him over 30 years ago at Diocesan Festivals. Minimum criticism and maximum praise seemed to be his maxim…. something we could all use as a way of life.

  7. Tom Allen Avatar

    Interesting review of Sunday morning here:
    http://irenelancaster.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/02/the-bbcs-even-h.html
    from the increasingly fantasy driven adviser on Jewish theology to the Archbishop of Canterbury!

  8. Jay Vos Avatar
    Jay Vos

    Yes! I’m over in Vermont USA. Ain’t internet grand? It was to listen to the internet broadcast on R4. Thanks.

  9. Kenny Avatar

    So sorry I missed “BJ’s” do! I remember traipsing round Scotland with him and the choir, singing in all seven main cathedrals in 18 hours! Boy did we have stamina then!

  10. Dr. Irene Lancaster Avatar

    Hi, Tom! Glad to see that you haven’t changed. The fantasy is, as ever, all in your head! Although I’d be very pleased to take on this auspicious role at Lambeth Palace, as far as I know they have no plans to take on such a person as you suggest – for the present at least. All a figment of the imagination, then!!

    I’m also terribly sad to have to inform you that I’ve just been invited to talk on the subject of my blog (to which you’ve kindly directed bloggers) at one of Britain’s most distinguished universities in the next few days (alas, not in Scotland, although I have lectured before now at Edinburgh).

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