• Church of Scotland Debate

    I’ve spent much of today listening to the Church of Scotland’s General Assembly debating their Special Theological Commission that had been set up a couple of years ago to report on the way forward for that church with regard to the possibility of gay people to be ordained and inducted and to have their partnerships blessed by that church.

    Three proposals emerged. The first two were in the report itself and labelled rather unsatisfactorily as the Revisionist (option A) and the Traditionalist (option B) position. Option A allows what tends to be called a mixed economy by which that church could eventually allow ministers in civil partnerships to be appointed to churches and gay couples in civil partnerships to be allowed to have their partnerships blessed. Option B would not though anyone who happened to be in a Civil Partnership already would probably not be hounded out of their ministry but no new minister in a civil partnership could be inducted or ordained. The third position emerged during the day and was moved in the name of Albert Bogle. (Confusingly it was option D – another motion C had been proposed and then was withdrawn during the process). This option D was a proposal to reaffirm the traditionalist view on these matters whilst allowing individual Kirk Sessions to opt to do as they like and choose such a minister anyway.

    In each case, these were not final votes. The procedures of the Church of Scotland mean that where there are significant changes accepted by a General Assembly they then have to be put to the presbyteries of the church. The final position only emerges if a majority of presbyteries concur during the subsequent year and also the next General Assembly confirms the vote. (If a majority of the presbyteries do not concur then the process fails).

    Option B fell in the first round of voting.

    The commissioners of the Assembly then opted for Option D.

    My own feeling is that this was a very hastily patched together compromise that is an astonishing move for the church to make.

    It effectively means that the Church of Scotland has chosen by 340 to 282 to go down a path which delays the decision for another year and which is theologically incoherent and unexamined by the Commission which had been set up to consider these matters.

    It means that the Church of Scotland has affirmed that it believes something whilst also giving permission to kirk sessions in the church to ignore that doctrine and do something diametrically opposed to what the church says it believes. It is not merely an untidy compromise, it is ecclesiastically and theologically incoherent.

    The Church of Scotland became more congregational in its polity today. Some may feel that there are frightening implications for those in that church who support the ordination of women as ministers and elders. What else is going to become a matter of congregational choice?

    All this now goes to presbyteries under the Barrier Act. (After next year’s Assembly, if I’ve understood this right).

    It may be that some will leave the Church of Scotland because they have affirmed a plan that would allow that church to have gay ministers in some congregations even though the church has affirmed that doctrinally it believes that this is wrong.

    It seems to me quite likely that presbyteries may refuse to affirm the proposal.

    This matter was not resolved in either direction in the Church of Scotland today.

4 responses to “Church Times Adverts”

  1.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    Re: Church Times Adverts
    Isn’t that what most of us are working for? A home with a view, whether it be in this life or the next. If I can get that, I’ll consider myself fortunate indeed! 🙂

  2.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    Re: Church Times Adverts
    No Annie, I don’t agree! I think that what Kelvin is getting at is tht these positions are exploiting elderly clergy who have little income and who have had no chance to buy a property because of church rules.

    A good view is no recompense in retirement if you havnt got a proper income and have to resort to this kind of job to make ends meet and keep a roof over your head.

    These “house for duty” positions are a way of getting ministry on the cheap. Clergy poverty in old age is likely to get even worse in coming years.

  3.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    Re: Church Times Adverts
    I’m sorry. I hope I didn’t offend anyone. I know what Kelvin was getting at and it is wrong for the church to exploit anyone. I believe that there are lots of people who are doing God’s work who are not all employed by the church, but are none the less in jobs that are “ministering” to others and that these jobs are often ones which give little monetary compensation. However simplistic it might sound, I happen to believe that God does provide for his children, even down to food, clothing, and shelter. Too often we don’t believe that what He provides is good enough when in reality it is always the best – meaning it is always the best for us, just what we need to become closer to Him. I don’t say any of this lightly. It’s something I’ve learned from experience and something I’m continuing to learn. I’m not sure I’m expressing my thoughts very coherently. George MacDonald says it much better in his book “What’s Mine’s Mine”. I didn’t mean to offend, criticize, chatise or preach. I only wanted to encourage. Kelvin appears to have a God given passion for activism and fighting for others. I admire that! I only wanted to encourage him with a reminder that God doesn’t forget us or our needs and wants. He uses them to draw us nearer to him. Also, when people and their institutions, religious and political, let us down – He never will.

  4.  Avatar
    Anonymous

    Re: Church Times Adverts
    Peace be with you!

    Simon – stop shouting at people.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Previous Posts

  • New Camera

    New camera arrived yesterday.Guess who had to be photographed first… 

  • Poem for Advent

    Here is a little poem to get us to tomorrow. It is by Rowan Williams.Advent CalendarHe will come like last leaf’s fall.One night when the November windhas flayed the trees to bone, and earthwakes choking on the mould,the soft shroud’s folding.He will come like frost.One morning when the shrinking earthopens on mist, to find itselfarrested…

  • Hell

    I greatly enjoyed the story about hell which was reported in the media over the weekend. It is all to do with the research of Eric Stoddart whom I knew in Scottish Churches Open College and who is now working in my old college, St Mary’s, St Andrews. He has had a research interest for…

  • Civil Partnerships

    The Civil Partnerships legislation was enacted today. It is good to see it become operational at last. I gather that one partnership has already been registered, the cooling off period for one couple being waived, as one of the partners was in a hospice and unlikely to live to the end of the month.There are…