• Was Jesus nice to women?

    I’ve been thinking about that gospel reading that we had on Sunday all week.

    Here at St Mary’s I read the central part of the reading, the dialogue with the woman at the well as a dialogue between my voice and that of a female member of the congregation. You learn new things by the way you perform scripture. I found myself feeling more uncomfortable reading the words of Jesus to a woman who was standing there responding than I would had I just read the whole of the gospel out in my own voice.

    ‘Go, call your husband, and come back.’
    ‘I have no husband.’
    ‘You are right in saying, “I have no husband”; for you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true!’

    How did it feel to be on the receiving end of that?

    It made me wonder whether again whether Jesus was nice to women and how I can know.

    There is a view that is fairly common that Jesus was better than most men at the time because he spoke to women and the culture he lived in was not one in which women and men could normally converse. This is a relatively common reading of Jesus’s dealings with women, particularly by liberals.

    I would parrot that view were it not for a conference I went on a few years ago when a feminist orthodox Jewish scholar made the case that this is an antisemitic reading of scripture and that Jewish culture then as now was one in which men and women could converse, do business and make friends. Imagining a world which is particularly negative for women and placing an imagined Jesus in the middle of it who seems to have more liberal values is a way of denegrating the culture and sociological surroundings that he had.

    That gospel reading does provide some fuel for this negative reading of Jewish culture of the time with the line:

    Just then his disciples came. They were astonished that he was speaking with a woman, but no one said, ‘What do you want?’

    However, one can counter that by saying – well, John’s gospel is the most uneasy of the gospels when it comes to affirming the Jewish tradition that Jesus came out of. Perhaps this is an early Christian slur against Jewish life alongside a lot of other negative language about “the Jews” in that gospel.

    It often strikes me that we want to believe in a Jesus who was nice and who by implication will like us and like our own mores, presumptions and even peccadillos.

    Scripture doesn’t always help us to maintain that view.

    Was Jesus nice to women? Can you answer this in the affirmative without denegrating the culture he came from?

    And for a side discussion – what are the issues around giving this picture to children to illustrate the tale?

    jesus-with-the-samaritan-woman-at-the-well - small

11 responses to “The Joy of Evensong”

  1. Kennedy Avatar
    Kennedy

    Does England-shire have Breach of the Peace as an offence?

    1. Kelvin Avatar

      It is not an offence, but it is a concept. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breach_of_the_peace#England.2C_Wales_and_Northern_Ireland

      There may be other ways of dealing with it as anti-social behaviour.

      1. Ruth Avatar
        Ruth

        I do hope so. The Abbey’s been there for hundreds of years, it’s not as if it could be said to be encroaching on the buskers’ pitch.

  2. Gerry Lynch Avatar

    I’ve long been a Choral Evensong addict. You might be interested in the article linked to, which I wrote on a similar theme. I’d also say, apropos the BCP, let alone the delightful SPB, that rumours of their death are greatly exaggerated, despite what was in many places a quite conscious attempt to kill them off.

    Rather as the worship of the pre-Reformation English Church lay dormant for centuries waiting to be rediscovered, the same will apply to our historic prayer books with their wonderfully rich language, incomparable Collects and Prayers, and realistic take on the human condition.

    http://sammymorse.wordpress.com/2014/06/05/why-is-cathedral-evensong-growing-and-what-does-it-mean/

  3. Richard Avatar
    Richard

    Someone once described to me that evensong was the jewel in the crown of Anglican services. Never having experienced the service at that time, I had no idea what he was talking about. Since then, I have been fortunate enough to attend evensong regularly in various places where I have discovered the subliminal quality of evensong worship. There is a feeling of intense and intimate communion with God, where the music encourages one to slip in and out of meditative consciousness. Fabulous stuff- it can leave one drained in the most delightful way.
    Incidentally, I have heard people complain that they don’t like evensong because there isn’t anything “to do”. Tragic.

  4. Susan Sheppard Hedges Avatar

    As a singer in a choir recently returned to the US from two weeks of ‘subbing’ at Norwich and Wells Cathedrals, I love the evensong. All the hubbing and bubbing in rehearsals previous to the service left one almost panting for breath. Then the choir gathered outside the quire as the organist played the prelude and we entered. Yes, we worried about the singing, but the prayers were most wonderful and gave even us that time to be in communion. I love it.

  5. Beth Thomas Avatar
    Beth Thomas

    Summer evenings, evening chorus of birds, peace at the end of the day, time to reflect on the week past and that to come, treading in the steps that people have taken since the 16th Century plus some of the most sublime liturgical music written. What’s not to like?

  6. Bob Avatar
    Bob

    Evensong at St. Mary’s is sublime you sum it up wonderfully Kelvin. A peace that passeth all understanding and speaks to the soul.

  7. Graham Ward Avatar
    Graham Ward

    I find Choral Evensong is often the easiest service to bring people who are strangers to church to. It doesn’t demand the same degree of commitment sort involvement as the Eucharist. No-one’s going to shake your hand and offer you the Peace whether you want them to or not, you don’t have that awkward moment that says “I don’t go to church” when everyone else goes up for communion and you’re left alone in the pew.
    The pattern of the daily office is easily explained, as are the cycles of psalms and bible readings. The idea that this form of service has been used, virtually unchanged, for hundreds of years reminds people of the permanence of the church – and instantly makes them a part of it. And crucially, much of the best church music is not found in settings of the Mass, but in the canticles and anthems used at Morning Prayer and Evensong.

  8. Jaye Richards-Hill Avatar

    Evensong was certainly what brought me to St Mary’s at first-and it is still one of the things (along with morning prayer) that I miss the most.

    I’ve always loved the service – the words,music,silence all come together for me into something which yes, very much soothes my soul.
    In Cape Town, they do a Jazz Vespers once a month which is basically, Evensong with some really smooth cool jazz music…. that’s a nice twist on an old friend…

  9. Melissa Holloway Avatar
    Melissa Holloway

    Evensong changed our life, I think.

    And afterward we would take the almost adults across the street for some of their first ales and pizza.

    Now I see it was such a fleeting moment. Most evensongs seem like that to me still- wonderful and fleeting.

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