• The Tim Farron Question and the Archbishop of Canterbury

    Let us return once again to the Tim Farron Question.

    Oh, I know, I really do know that you’d much prefer it if we could just move on. However, the Tim Farron Question is actually rather important. And trust me anyway, this isn’t [mostly] a post about Tim Farron, who might be expected to have other things on his mind at the moment.

    For the sake of those watching from furth of these shores who might be confused by all this, Tim Farron is the leader of the Liberal Democrats – a political party in the UK which bears upon its weary shoulders the hopes and dreams of many who believe that liberalism is the answer the problems of this wonderful world.  Now, a certain journalist, Cathy Newman managed to discern that it might be interesting to ask Mr Farron who is an evangelical Christian whether or not he believed gay sex to be a sin. Over many occasions that the question was put by Ms Newman, Mr Farron refused to answer. The presumption amongst many being that he did indeed believe that gay sex is sinful but couldn’t say so in his position as a liberal leader. His defence seemed to fit with this – he and many others claimed that it was not proper for a politician to determine what was and was not a sin, that whatever he might believe in private he had acted in favour of gay rights (a claim which has been disputed by some looking at his record in parliament), and that yes, it so happens that His Best Friend Is Gay.  His defenders than asked why people were not making a fuss about other politicians’ views on whether gay sex is a sin. This led to the Prime Minister being asked directly whether she did or did not believe such a thing and she came out with a commendably clear answer. She did not.

    Subsequently, Tim Farron has done an interview in which he said that he did not (or maybe did no longer, it wasn’t clear) believe that gay sex is a sin. This led many to say that this was the end of the matter, the show was over and that we must all move on.

    I now don’t know whether Tim Farron ever did or did not believe gay sex to be a sin, I am agnostic about whether he has ever changed his mind about it and it must be fairly obvious that I don’t think he dealt with this matter very well. However, there are perhaps limits as to how much wisdom there is in pursuing the matter with Mr Farron any more.  Chris Creegan in particular has written eloquently to suggest that it is time to let go of the matter and move along. And I find myself agreeing in part with Chris in that I think that just pursuing Tim Farron is now rather pointless. However, I am of the view that the Tim Farron Question illuminates other matters that I’m not at all ready to move on from. And that takes me away from Tim Farron and on to the church and in particularly the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    Before I get to the point that I now want to make about the Tim Farron Question, which is not in fact about Tim Farron, let me just say that I think that those defending him tended to think that they were defending a Christian from the aggressive bullying of secularists when in fact those most concerned with Tim Farron’s position were actually other liberally minded Christians appalled at what he appeared to be saying. After all, it didn’t seem to show Christianity or LibDemery in a particularly good light. And who on earth ever thought that it was good for LGBT people for commentators to defend the right of prominent people to seem to defend (or be seen to defend) gay rights in public but actually to think them sinners in private?

    But anyway, the fact of the matter is that having had a while to reflect on the Tim Farron Question, I think I want to say something about the Tim Farron Answer – or at least one of the answers that he gave whilst being relentlessly asked time and again the same question. He said, rather witheringly that it was not his place to answer such a question because, he was not the Archbishop of Canterbury.

    Now then. Now then.

    What are we to say in response to this? It would appear that we have someone saying that the church and indeed the Archbishop of Canterbury might be better placed to rule on the Tim Farron Question than Tim Farron. I know that the poor, beleaguered Christian soul was at the end of his tether when he said this but it is worth asking ourselves whether he was in fact right and that Cathy Newman was directing the Tim Farron Question at altogether the wrong person all along. Whilst I happen to think that Cathy Newman’s questioning was legitimate at the time, I do find that I’m considerably more interested in whether the Archbishop of Canterbury believes gay sex to be a sin than Tim Farron.

    Now, into the middle of this, steps the Archbishop of York who rather bizarrely, when interviewed at the weekend seemed to suggest that Tim Farron was never qualified to answer the Tim Farron Question in the first place.

    So, there we have it. I’m not that interested any more in Tim Farron’s view. John Sentamu doesn’t think Tim Farron has enough theological training to have a view. To whom shall we turn to find the answer to the Tim Farron Question? John Sentamu batted anyone getting close to asking him the question with a strong denunciation of the criminalization of homosexuality. We must be thankful at times for small mercies and I am indeed glad to hear this from the Archbishop’s lips.

    But is gay sex a sin?

    It seems to me that the Tim Farron Answer to the Tim Farron Question leads us inevitably to the gateway of Lambeth Palace itself.

    “I’m not the Archbishop of Canterbury”, Tim Farron wailed piteously.

    But someone is.

    And that someone ought to be being asked the Tim Farron Question every time he encounters the press.

    The question matters because the truth is, Justin Welby probably does have a view and probably does have enough theological training in the matter to satisfy even the Archbishop of York.

    And it matters mostly because it is a life and death matter. There are those who would tell us that if the Archbishop of Canterbury expressed the view that gay sex is not a sin then vulnerable Anglicans would be slaughtered by Muslims in Africa and elsewhere. Personally I don’t believe this and think it has more to do with Islamophobia than anything else. Indeed, I’ve strongly condemned the Archbishop of Canterbury when he has said such things in the past. (See – You Condemn it, Archbishop if you want a catch up).

    But it is very much a life or death question if the Archbishop remains silent or, even worse, express the view that gay sex is in fact a sin. Silence equals death, for some of us, as the long-standing slogan used amongst HIV activists suggests. Silence in the face of the homophobia that is prevalent in society leads to suicide for some and damaged lives for others. The cost is high.

    So here’s the thing. I do still think that the Tim Farron Question was legitimate. However, I have moved on. I now think that the Tim Farron Answer matters too.

    Does the Archbishop of Canterbury think gay sex is a sin?

    Oh, Cathy Newman – I do hope you get your chance.

    The fact that the question has been put at the forefront of public life in the UK at the moment makes it  inevitable that it will be asked of other people. Cathy Newman deserves the chance to ask the Tim Farron question of the person Tim Farron thought should answer it. And if she doesn’t get the chance to ask it, I suspect others will.

    More than that, I think others should.

    “Now, Archbishop Justin Welby, you’ve heard all the debate about Tim Farron – but what do you think? Do you think gay sex is a sin?”

     

11 responses to “A Form of Benediction for Married Persons”

  1. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    If it is proof reading you have got ‘those who are to be married’ p 13 when the liturgy earlier told us they were married. Same p 15.

    As to the situation – plainly it is nuts. I assume it is a softly softly approach designed so that in fifteen years time somebody can say ‘But we have been marrying people in all but name for fifteen years, and nobody has ever objected’ – the not wholly unreasonable belief being that people tend to just-come-round to things. Not wholly unreasonable as this appears to have happened in British society. It takes no account of the difficulties and miseries these fifteen years will cause. Largely because they will not be caused to those formulating the policies, I imagine. And because many of those involved are, in fact, of the generation which has most struggled with the (to me) blindingly obvious that gender is irrelevant to love. That marriage is aobut love, and not gender roles (and women are not subservient in society) (which is what those who actually do believe that marriage is only for the straight all seem to me to believe).

    1. Kelvin Avatar

      Thanks Rosemary. That’s exactly the kind of correction I need. I’ve amended the document.

      I think the worry about waiting for 15 years before finding that we’ve been doing this all along is that vast numbers of people are presuming the church to be poisonous simply because they hear a public message which is that church isn’t for you if you have decent views about gay people.

  2. Kelvin Avatar

    Anyone wanting to see the Scottish Episcopal Church’s actual marriage liturgy to see how completely and utterly different, oh its so different you wouldn’t believe it, you really won’t be able to comprehend how different, it is from what is posted above can find it here:
    http://scotland.anglican.org/index.php/liturgy/liturgy/marriage_liturgy_2007/

  3. Marnie Barrell Avatar
    Marnie Barrell

    I’m puzzled by this expression in one of the prayers – never heard the word.
    “Together we now handsel them.”

    1. Kelvin Holdsworth Avatar

      Check out the notes in the marriage liturgy. It is an old Scots word.

  4. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Oh yes, I quite agree it it a poisonous situation. But ‘all’ it causes is slow death. People believe that is inevitable (I do not, but they do) and they can face that. What they cannot face is a row. Others in their faces saying things which they have to reply to.

    At least, I assume that is the reason for delay, for the policy of attrition. If anybody can thing of anything else, do tell me.

    Handsel – gift or positive good wish given at the start of an enterprise, or at a significant stage upon it, to wish it well upon its way. Scots word.

  5. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    I am afraid both working for managed decline and the idea that loving somebody of one’s own gender is in any inferior are both ideas which I have no sympathy with or understanding of. We all have out limitations.

  6. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    ‘in any way inferior’ sorry.

  7. Bro David Avatar
    Bro David

    The US or Canada would be a great Honey Moon destination and the happy couple could easily find a number of Anglican parishes in either nation where they could celebrate their wedding nuptials in style!

    1. Kelvin Holdsworth Avatar
      Kelvin Holdsworth

      The possibility of doing things in style has never been in doubt.

  8. Alan McManus Avatar

    Bro David that’s a welcome suggestion. Also welcome is the offer of a good friend on many of us at St Marys who is a minister of the United Presbyterian Church of America (apologies if not exact title) who is now legally and ecclesiastically empowered to conduct marriages between any two persons and intends to do so here in Scotland. Methinks that all this silly shilly shallying about may come to an end when the powers that be realise that where there’s a calenderfull of nuptials there’s noodles of cash. And what church will say no to a sizeable contribution to the roof or organ fund?

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Previous Posts

  • The Hope of my Roman Catholic Friends

    I know so many Roman Catholics. I minister to a lot of Roman Catholics. A number of Roman Catholics minister to me, bringing me life and joy and love. Those relationships mean that I live with their hope. The news that the pope was going to retire brought that hope out into the open. It…

  • St Andrews Debates

    Great night last night in Lower Parliament Hall in St Andrews. I’d been invited to join a panel debate (a bit like Question Time) on LGBT issues at the invitation of the Debating Society and the LGBT Society of St Andrews University. I like going back to St Andrews, which was where I read theology…

  • Review: Werther – Scottish Opera

    This review appeared first at Opera Britannia The start of Scottish Opera’s new production of Massenet’s Werther is deceptive. As the curtain goes up we have a pleasant enough scene. A wooden structure is present with what look like rickety stairs. Snow soon starts to fall at the rear of the stage – snow that…

  • Government Consultation response from LGBT Group

    The LGBT Group at St Mary’s met on 18 February to prepare its response to the current Scottish Government consultation on the bill that it is proposing to bring in on allowing changes to marriage law in Scotland including allowing same-sex couples to be able to be marriage. In case anyone is interested, here is…