• The #syriavote is not so simple really

    Like many people in the UK, I spent much of yesterday dipping into what was happening in parliament as a long debate took place as to whether this country should engage in military action against ISIL in Syria.

    I once had aspirations to be an MP and that always makes me wonder which division lobby I would have walked into when these moments of national drama take place.

    In this instance I am almost sure that I would have walked into the nay lobby – I’d have voted against extending military action in Syria.

    However, I don’t find this a simple question. It is far more complex than my twitter feed seems to be suggesting. And this morning I’m not rushing to add #notinmyname hashtags to everything. This is a case where I can see merit on both side of the question and I find that my gut reaction which is to be against military action is more pragmatic than ideological.

    I happen not to be a pacifist. I am not a pacifist because I think that sometimes there are evils that may need to be defeated by force. The obvious and classic example is that I think that the allied forces were right to be deployed to defeat Nazism. It was an ideology that threatened all of Europe with its evil. Some things are worth fighting against.

    It is my suspicion that ISIL is something worth fighting against that would have made me pause before casting a vote had I been in parliament last night. I find myself having sympathy with Hilary Benn who identified the threat from ISIL as being the fascism of the day. So many of the same themes emerge – death to the Jews, death to the gays, murderous sectarianism and a direct opposition to democracy. The fact that it now uses terrorism on Western streets and wickedly distorts Islam for its own ends shouldn’t blind us to the fact that we’ve seen fascism before and have believed it should be fought.

    And that’s why I can see that there’s a case for action.

    My problem is largely because I can’t see the action being particularly likely to succeed which is one of the conditions of using force in just war theory.

    I can’t really see that there’s a plan for post conflict rebuilding of Syria yet. I can’t really see how another two bombers will make that much difference – the Americans have been bombing ISIL targets for months and don’t seem to me to have solved the problem. It is inevitable that civilians will die in this action. It is difficult to believe that the action will meet the test of proportionality. I also don’t really believe that you can bomb ideas out of existence.

    And so I find myself believing action to be wrong for pragmatic reasons whilst believing that ISIL should be confronted for ideological reasons. And that would have given me a terrible dilemma has I been in parliament.

    Two things emerged yesterday which I found contemptible. Firstly the Prime Minister’s assertion that those who were against action were terrorist sympathisers. It was beneath the dignity of his office to make such a claim and he should have apologised. Secondly, those who are trying to co-opt this question for the sake of Scottish Nationalism. It should be beneath our dignity as the people of Scotland to co-opt this terrible decision for our local politics. Whether one likes it or not, Scotland chose to remain part of the UK and the UK parliament has made a decision. Being democrats means that sometimes we have to respect the democratic decisions that are made that we don’t like. That’s what being a democrat actually is. That means those who don’t like the result of the Scottish Referendum need to accept that the people of Scotland made an informed choice. It is our parliament that made the decision last night – a decision I happen to find it difficult to support. It is a parliament that the people of Scotland chose to remain a part of. Using ISIL to make cheap nationalist points in this country appals me. If we don’t accept democratic decision making (the referendum, the workings of parliament in which we are all represented etc) then we begin to lose the moral right to stand against the forces which rage against democracy wherever we encounter them.

    We encounter them in ISIL. The question at hand is how to oppose them.

    Last night I think that I would have voted against the government and against the use of force in Syria. However I would have done so with a heavy heart. It is just possible that after listening to the debates I might have voted with the government and for the use of force against the evils of ISIL. I would have done so with an even heavier heart though I would have done so hoping that if my own land was being conquered by fascists, then other countries would intervene.

    That’s why this issue is more complex than my twitter feed seems to find it.

8 responses to “Guides and God”

  1. Tim Avatar

    I like the change from `country’ to `community’ most of all.

  2. PamB Avatar
    PamB

    I still remember my Brownie and Guide promises, but think that the Chorister’s prayer takes a lot of beating.
    Bless O Lord us thy servants who minister in thy temple. Grant that what we sing with our lips we may believe in our hearts, and what we believe in our hearts we may show forth in our lives, through etc, etc.
    Don’t know why this isn’t an essential part of the Voice for life scheme, same as the Brownie/guide equivalents are to their development process.

  3. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    The only one of the above I could take (Pam’s chorister’s apart) without serious finger-crossing is the Rainbow pledge. I MIGHT want to serve my community, but it would usually be by challenging it, and that is, based on childhood experiences and why I never got to play Mary in the nativity play (despite being in every other way well qualified) that is NOT what people want from children, generally. Or adults, by and large.

  4. Robin Avatar
    Robin

    > To be true to myself and develop my beliefs,

    This is meaningless. Beliefs, in themselves, are neither good nor bad. Nor are all beliefs equally valid or moral – people can have horrible beliefs.

  5. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Indeed Robin -and similarly, on occasion setting about me with a mace would have been being true to myself, and not a good thing to do, but THINKING about what one believes, and being kind and helpful … yes, let’s stick with the Rainbows.

  6. Robin Avatar
    Robin

    Agreed. I like the Rainbow pledge.

  7. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Yup – promise less, deliver more. Way to go.

  8. Erp Avatar
    Erp

    Don’t forget these also go with the Brownie and Guide Laws (the Rainbows don’t have a separate law)

    Brownie law
    * A Brownie Guide thinks of others before herself and does a good turn every day.

    Guide law
    A Guide is honest, reliable and can be trusted.
    A Guide is helpful and uses her time and abilities wisely.
    A Guide faces challenges and learns from her experiences.
    A Guide is a good friend and a sister to all Guides.
    A Guide is polite and considerate.
    A Guide respects all living things and takes care of the world around her.

    What I like is the organization consulted with the Guides and even the Brownies when considering changes to the promises and not just those over 18.

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