11 responses to “Equal Marriage – Questions people haven’t thought of #1”

1. 

   Stewart

   01/08/2012

   As I see Scottish Law, all partnerships are registered by the Civil Authorities. In the case of Glasgow you have to go to Martha Street and fill in the appropriate paperwork. All varieties of couples can have a civil partnership officiated by a Civil Registrar.

   However only Man-Woman partnerships can be solomnised in a religious setting. Kelvin, you should be allowed to solomnise all partnerships (Man-Woman, Man-Man, Woman-Woman) in St Mary’s.

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2. 

   william

   01/08/2012

   Do we mean a ‘moral difference’ in the sight of God, or in the eyes of a nation at a particular point in history, or in the understanding of practising homosexuals, or in the perspective of a christian church?
   Without defining the audience ‘moral difference’ is a slippery term!

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3. 

   kelvin

   01/08/2012

   In this case, all that I’m interested in is what the Scottish Episcopal Church thinks it is doing.

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4. 

   Erp

   02/08/2012

   How does the SEC consider opposite sex couples who get a civil marriage and then years later want something in church?

   Now from my initial humanist point of view there has been no difference in moral status between a civil partnership, a civil marriage, or exchanging equivalent promises in cases where a legal ceremony is not possible (e.g., slaves in times past or same sex couples in many places) though there are legal differences.

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5. 

   kelvin

   02/08/2012

   The SEC regards couples who get married in a civil ceremony and couples who get married in a religious ceremony as being equally married. There is no distinction between them

   This is, I think, different to the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland.

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   1. 

      Seph

      02/08/2012

      If the SEC opts out of the same-sex marriage legislation, will it recognise civilly-wed same-sex couples as being married? If not, then the hypothetical same-sex couple are not married in the eyes of the church. If the SEC decides to recognise same-sex marriages but won’t perform them, there is no difference and we should stop messing around.

      I imagine people going from civil partnership to marriage will make as much or as little of a big deal of it as they like.

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6. 

   Rosemary Hannah

   02/08/2012

   For me the question is intent – if the couple intend to be married but are denied by a civil authority, they are married in the eyes of God. However it is very plain that currently the law wishes to consider they are NOT married, and it is a hard thing indeed to keep your end up against the law. Therefore they ‘need’ to be married to affirm to themselves and the society that they are indeed married.

   The question is ‘what makes a marriage: set promises made according to form: the understanding between the two marrying: the understanding of society of what marriage is.’ In practice it is very hard indeed to have a marriage without all three components.

   CU was designed to have no promises, and no understanding by society that it was marriage. Compassionate registrars saw at once that the former was impossible. Generally, society has not fully embraced the idea that the latter is fully true. They usually think it is just near enough. Some people then think it is near enough to consider it marriage, and others that it is quite near enough, thank you. Hence those pressing for equal marriage – to make it clear once and for all.

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   1. 

      Geoff

      03/08/2012

      Having been vexed by this question myself, I think Rosemary is onto something. After all, the ministers of marriage are the couple. I have long advocated that couples denied marriage “for fear of the religious authorities” exchange their vows and present themselves at the altar rail during Benediction of the MBS for a guerilla blessing.

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7. 

   Rosemary Hannah

   02/08/2012

   Interestingly, the church is still in places reluctant to marry some divorcees (where, for instance a new relationship has been formed before the marriage ended, and the new relationship killed the old) but once civilly married – married they are.

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   1. 

      william

      02/08/2012

      In the eyes of God?

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8. 

   Rosemary Hannah

   03/08/2012

   @william. I am agnostic on the question of whether people whose adultery caused the end of an earlier marriage are married in the eyes of God, if that is what you are asking. It is an issue on which I have to admit I am incapable of dispassion. Maybe they are. God is endlessly forgiving and compassionate. It will hardly be news to anybody that I do not always rise to God’s standards.

   I am sure that faithful gay couples who consider themselves married and have taken all the legal steps they can to be as-close-to-married ARE married in the eyes of God, but this latter belief will hardly come as news to those who know me and my family.

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