• Conversations with Catholics (and others)

    KH in pulpit by the crucifix

    Over the next couple of weeks, I’m trying something new and a bit different at St Mary’s. I’m offering coffee and a chat to a couple of different kinds of  people who are always present within the congregation. Tomorrow morning (Saturday 9 January 2016) I’m having a coffee morning for people in the congregation who have Roman Catholic roots. There’s always a significant number of such people in St Mary’s and I thought it might be interesting to get some of us together for a chat. In a fortnight’s time I’ll be repeating the exercise with those who have a background as evangelicals. I’ll see how these go and then see whether  there’s any other groups which might want to meet. A  couple of people said that they grew up as presbyterians and they should have a coffee morning but I’m not sure whether that one is one to go for or not. Another possibility that I’ve thought of is a chat with those who fit the Spiritual Seeker profile – those who’ve meditated with Buddhists, banged their drums, sweated in their sweat lodges, spun in circles and knitted their own lentils. We’ve always got a fair representation from that constituency and it might be interesting to gather such people together.

    However, I’m starting with catholics because I know that those who come from a Roman Catholic background have a common conversation though not necessarily a common experience. Some come to St Mary’s who are quite clear that they are Roman Catholics still and that St Mary’s just happens to be a resting place for them on their journey. Others have an articulate conversation about what they have left behind and why they needed to move on from the Roman Catholic church and find something new. Rather intriguingly there’s a mix between those who come to St Mary’s because it allows them to live out their catholicism and those who come because it allows them to say that they’ve moved on from it.

    St Mary’s offers an interesting place for those with catholic roots to worship. For many there’s the surprise that the worship is just like the worship that they have known within Roman Catholicism.

    I once said to a liturgist that it wonderful, amazing and surprising that the modern Roman Catholic Mass was so similar to the liturgy of the Scottish Episcopal Church. “Not amazing at all!” he exclaimed – “we all of us, Romans and Anglicans and all the rest went to the same liturgy conferences in the 1970s”. Sadly in recent years with the new translation of the Roman Catholic mass into (terrible) English, we’ve moved a little further apart again but you can still very much recognise that things are essentially the same.

    I’m soemtimes puzzled by the reactions of Roman Catholics who find themselves present in St Mary’s. We often have tourists who come from Roman Catholics countries who presume that it is a Roman Catholic church. They do so even, in my experience, when a female colleague has been celebrating at the Sung Eucharist. This puzzles me. But also encourages me a little.

    For many from a catholic background we provide what they would have hoped for from their own church – a mass they recognise, social teaching on sexuality, marriage and divorce that is as positive as the catholic social teaching on economics that they believe in and a shared love and devotion to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist alongside a love for his mother too. There are no doubt negatives – the sorrow of families feeling parted by church divisions over the Eucharist. (Everyone is welcome to receive in St Mary’s but that doesn’t begin to scratch the deep irritations surrounding who is and who is not able to receive communion in various churches). There are also confusing messages that the Scottish Episcopal Church sends out about membership that we might talk about. People tend to know they are Roman Catholics and tend not to be entirely sure whether they are Scottish Episcopalians. That could well be part of the conversation.

    I’m looking forward to this and expect I’ll learn things. The invitation is open to anyone who wants to come and have a coffee with me in the Synod Hall on Saturday morning at 10.30.

8 responses to “Synod Review – things you might have missed”

  1. kelvin Avatar

    COMMENTING POLICY

    Someone has tried to leave an anonymous comment making an allegation against someone in our church, that specific instances of bullying have been covered up.

    Whatever my sympathies are about the issue in general or what it being said in this case in particular, it is my view that dealing with this kind of thing through leaving an anonymous comment on a blog is neither an appropriate nor fruitful way forward. Indeed, my guess is that any anti-bullying policy worth its salt would argue that such a comment was itself an inappropriate behaviour in church circles.

    There is a grievance procedure in the church. If the person who left the comment would like to contact me by email or phone, I would be happy to point them towards the most appropriate way of dealing with the unfinished business which is causing them concern.

  2. chris Avatar

    Glad you had the energy to write this up so soon. I’d be interested in the further pursuit of the perceived irregularities with the Reserved Sacrament – but right now I have to get out to an entirely lay-led RS communion …

  3. Sarah Murray Avatar
    Sarah Murray

    It would be great to see the stats more widely available, they are quite difficult to get hold of- having written a paper on secularization and the SEC this year- stats were the first place to start to look at the trends and whether they matched the general trends etc. however I had to go around the houses to find them and then there were some considerable gaps. The census data unfortunately doesn’t include SEC as a separate category and therefore we have no picture from that data either. The patterns and the implications are hugely important picture for the future of the church.

  4. Suz Cate Avatar
    Suz Cate

    First, I offer thanks for the glimpse at a sister-church’s inner workings. Fascinating!

    I’m so sorry to hear that your preparation for ordained ministry included bullying. My personal experience here in TEC of the USA has been entirely supportive and not a bit confrontational (which isn’t to say it hasn’t been probing at times), but I’m aware of colleagues whose “process” has definitely included some bullying, and it is disgraceful.

    Your observation that “by such small mercies that great social change happens” is apt. I’ve seen that principle in action in our diocesan convention, in the pews of multiple parishes, and, more significantly for a native of the southern US, in the hundreds of daily situations in which persons of all different sorts have access to what were in former times the exclusive privileges of white upper class.

    The fact that there are still unspoken and unseen barriers to truly free access (here I’m thinking of my African American friends who feel the need to teach their sons to avoid encounters with the police, for instance) bears witness to the need to include as contributors and consultants the subjects of projects such as the Grosvenor Essay.

    Data matter. Even outliers are meaningless without the context of the data.

  5. Melissa Holloway Avatar
    Melissa Holloway

    I believe in small mercies – but the genesis of the small mercy mentioned here is a voice of leadership and power. In my southern USA diocese, as far as I can tell, the bishop’s voice goes in a different direction.

    Also, there is a ‘once upon a time’ that I think pertains not just to the Anglican Covenant, but also to the full inclusion of gay people in the church:

    “Once upon a time, I would have been on my feet encouraging, threatening, cajoling. I’d have been sowing fear, uncertainty and doubt. I would have been at work behind the scenes, bending people’s ears, twisting people’s arms – ”

    To risk being coy- as I was recently exhorted, we wait for the holy spirit here.

    I rejoice for this episode in the Scottish Episcopal Church, but it doesn’t make me feel so sanguine about my own life in the church. I hope for the day when a bishop I can claim says such a thing in a diocesan convention and then also for the day when everyone just wonders what the nibbles will be.

  6. revruth Avatar

    I wasn’t there nor did I manage to catch up on the talk about the deaconate online, but I wonder if anyone mentioned how this was going to be financed. Ordaining lots of deacons might be a very nice thing indeed, but I wonder if there is money for this. I reckon there are few churches who could afford both, so…?

  7. Christian Avatar
    Christian

    Fr Kelvin,

    It’s sad but not surprising to read your reporting on the SEC Synod debate about ministry. I am utterly perplexed to read that folks in this day and age think that someone coming straight from college knew nothing about the world. This is one of the reasons why I think that SEC will continue to struggle to attract younger members of our communities if they will not be accepeted (given the opportunity) and recognized for who they are and what they bring–Freshness, passion, zeal, strength, etc.

    However, I thank God for the grace and boldness given to our Primus to respond robustly to such ill-thought notions like: [There were calls for more non-stipendiaries working “not in the parish but in the world” and also for us to focus on those who have “life-experience” to be sought for ministry and not those coming “straight from college who know nothing about the world”.]

  8. Julie Avatar
    Julie

    Provost Kelvin

    It was refreshing to read the various reflections in the special edition of Inspires on-line post Synod 2012.
    Where there were any differences, when I compared the above with your Review, from my perspective, I felt your description was more measured & accurate.

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