What is in Kelvin's Head?

  • The Best Questions in the World

    We offer a course at St Mary’s every now and then called the God Factor. You may have heard me mention it. It works like lots of church courses in that folk gather around food and have a conversation. In our case we gather around the best pizzas in town which come from just across the road and most of the courses have chosen to meet on a Sunday lunchtime.

    However, the God Factor is different from a lot of courses that churches run because I can’t tell you what will happen exactly from one course to the next. I can’t give you the book. I can’t give you a plan for what those on the God Factor will all learn. Why so? Well, because the participants set the agenda. The first meeting is all about collecting questions from the group. Those questions are then grouped and tackled by the group over about eight weeks. The idea is that they get to use those running the course (clergy and laity) as a resource to try to find answers to the questions that have been logged at the beginning.

    For those who want a bit of pedagogy, this arises out of a situation where the Vice Provost is into Paulo Freire and the Provost is known to read Ivan Illich in the bath, but let us not be too technical and get too distracted by methodoloty right now. Because the exciting thing is that we’ve just got the questions for the course that is beginning at the moment.

    I think these are the best questions in the world to get a group to try to answer. See what you think below. Oh, and if you want to join in with this course and engage in trying to find the answers to these then get in touch with the Vice Provost using this contact form.

    The Questions – God Factor – March 2014

    Bible

    • Is it OK to disagree with some bits of the Bible?
    • Do I have to believe everything in the Bible?
    • What is the best way to read the Bible?
    • If the Bible was written in approximately 400 AD, how accurate is it?
    • Why are only some Gospels used today?

    Church and churches

    • How does the Scottish Episcopal Church choose its clergy?
    • Who are Episcopalians and how do they differ from Catholics and other Protestants?
    • What is the Church for? Couldn’t we do without it?
    • Why are there so many different denominations?
    • So few people go to church these days; will it change or simply die out?

    Doctrine

    • Is God male or female? Black, Chinese, White?
    • How will I know that God has accepted me? Forgiven me?
    • Can you lose your faith, find it and lose it again in your one lifetime?
    • Is there such a thing as condemnation?
    • Is ‘God’ a male?
    • Reincarnation – does it exist?
    • Do you think suicide is a coward’s way out?
    • Spiritual ‘dry spells’ – what to do during them.
    • What ‘sins’ cannot be forgiven?
    • How do we define sin?
    • Is there an afterlife? If so, what does it look like?
    • Is there a hell?

    Ethics

    • Why is the Church obsessed with sex?
    • Why does a message of peace and love end up causing war, suicide bombings and so much hatred?
    • Why so many different rules and regulations, e.g. on birth control and same sex marriage?
    • The Vatican = corruption? Wealth? I struggle with their beliefs – no birth control, third world women dying etc.
    • Was there any truth in the Da Vinci Code book?
    • Why do the different denominations of the Church always seem to be at odds with each other?
    • Is faith just for sad people and those who need a crutch?
    • Why are so many religions intolerant of different people, e.g. gay people, and contraception?
    • Should the Church be involved in politics?

    God and Jesus

    • Is Jesus God or just a way to God?
    • Why did Jesus allow himself to be crucified?
    • Will Jesus return?
    • Was Jesus God or human?
    • Does God exist?
    • Why does God not intervene on issues of poverty/hunger etc?
    • What does God look like/feel like?
    • Was Mary really a virgin when pregnant?

    Other faiths/religions

    • Why is Christianity different to other faiths?
    • Why are there so many different religions?
    • Why has religion caused so many wars?
    • Why is the Jewish religion so feared? Hated?
    • How should we respond to people of different faiths?
    • Relationship between Christianity and other faiths.
    • Is the Christian faith the only way? What about good Buddhists, Muslims and Humanists?
    • Is war and bad weather judgement from God?

    Worship

    • How can I learn to pray?
    • When during services do people ‘cross’ themselves and why?
    • Would Scottish independence be good for the UK?
    • Does God really love everyone? What about those who reject him?
    • How does prayer work? Is there a right and a wrong way to pray?
    • Why does it feel so incredibly peaceful in a church?
    • Why is incense used?
    • Why is the Eucharist important?
    , ,

27 responses to “A Response to the Prime Minister”

  1. Patsy Avatar
    Patsy

    Dear Kelv

    You make some interesting points. But do you have to be so rude? All the “Dave” stuff is a bit juvenile. If you want to have a serious debate surely you can show a bit of respect? Also maybe a little charity – was it really necessary to be quite so snide (I almost said “nasty”) about the PM’s rather hesitant comments on his own faith?

    Reply
    1. william Avatar
      william

      Well said and well put – Patsy.
      Sadly ‘revisionists’ don’t seem to recognise ‘rudeness’, lack of ‘charity’, ‘unattractiveness’ in what they say and do within the church, although they believe they recognise them and see them in others.
      It could be that blindness to all of this is because of the paucity of grace in their mindset; Pelagians don’t feel the need for grace or atonement as much as the rest of us.
      They seem to assume God is always smiling on them, and is always pleased with the worship they present to Him, whatever its content or assumptions. Even in whatever behaviour they engage in, even boast of.
      In Jeremiah’s day, in contrast, the religious were warned frequently with words like: peace, peace – when there was no peace. But most did not have ears to hear such warnings.
      Maybe your wisdom will strike a chord of caution.

      Reply
      1. kelvin Avatar
        kelvin

        >They seem to assume God is always smiling on them

        Oh yes! Oh yes!

        Reply
      2. Ryan Avatar
        Ryan

        William, you and Pasty know (or should) that ‘Dave’ is a popular phrase quite widely used to refer to Cameron’s ‘couch sofa’ style Blairist governing style and his attempts to *present himself* as a man of the people rather than a privleged OE. Dare one say that calling a David ‘Dave’ is , in terms of rudeness, not exactly up there with demonising gay people, nor implying that someone who disagrees with an opinion *on* a theological matter is somehow ignorant *of* theology?

        Can you cite a ‘non’ revisionist expression of church that offers worship that would please the God of Jeremiah, William? Personally I think the sort of glorious Eucharists that St.Mary’s feature hit closer to the mark than either (say) Shine Jesus Shine style worship songs or the glum langours of (e.g.) ‘biblical’ presbyterianism, but YMMV….

        Also, given that this is the same David Cameron who appeared in gay mag Attitude suggesting that the C of E could take lead from the now (relatively) gay-friendly tory party and giving it the sackcloth-and-ashes in regard to Section 28, I do have to laugh at self-styled fundamentalists accusing beastly Kelvin of being so mean about Cameron’s in-no-way-largely-for-political-gain theological musings.

        Reply
  2. william Avatar
    william

    Ryan – have a happy christmas – William!

    Reply
    1. Ryan Avatar
      Ryan

      Ah, robust and scrupulous engagement with comments as always William! 😉

      And also, as they say, to you.

      Reply
  3. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    “It could be that blindness to all of this is because of the paucity of grace in their mindset; Pelagians don’t feel the need for grace or atonement as much as the rest of us.
    They seem to assume God is always smiling on them, and is always pleased with the worship they present to Him, whatever its content or assumptions. ”

    This is not merely inaccurate but terrible theology.
    1-Nobody is more scrupulous about worship than Kelvin. The content of Episcopal worship is (unlike that of denominations less heavily influenced by the Catholic tradition) carefully prescribed.
    2 – Grace, in the Reformed sense is, in fact, a frequent theme of his sermons.
    3 – The real trouble with Pelagians is that they assume they have to EARN the favour of God – and that he is not very likely to be induced to smile on them. It is Athanasians who believe that God comes to them, and despite their inability to get things right, smiles on them. You have reversed the two. Allow me to suggest that Kelvin’s theology, which as one who has listened to him and read him, I think I understand, is such that he knows he is beloved by God even if he sometimes gets things wrong. Whereas you write as though you think you have to get your theology and other assorted beliefs right to be loved by God. But it is not so. Even people who make the most astonishing mistakes God are still his children, loved and carried in his heart.

    Reply
    1. kelvin Avatar
      kelvin

      Right on all counts, Rosemary. There is nothing I can do to make God love me more. I’m already utterly loved. Morality, ethics, grace and love are all predicated on that love being entirely unwavering. There is nothing that I can do (even less believe) that would make God love me more.

      I would add that I have been to a place which claims to be the tomb of Athanasius.

      (It was a little smelly).

      Reply
      1. william Avatar
        william

        How profound, and yet how gloriously true – “There is nothing I can do to make God love me more.”
        That’s the whole biblical meta narrative – God does everything, even recreates us in the image of His Son by His Spirit – as Paul said, we are ‘new creation’.
        And our heavenly Father has done all this for us that He might have children bearing the family likeness – not that our obedience will make Him love us more.
        But disobedience to what He has spoken will surely lead to fatherly chastisement.
        So in that regard there is always more we can do, as opposed to “There is nothing that I can do”. Good fathers do not smile on their children’s disobedience, even though they do not love them less.
        Sadly Pelagius pursued and taught the route of meritorious good works to please the Father [and the heresy is still vigorously alive today] – he was blind enough to think he might even be able to do this.
        Augustinians pursue grace – but increasingly their lives are being conformed to the likeness of Christ as Jesus said, by their fruits you will know them.
        Righteousness by faith is not a legal fiction!

        Reply
  4. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    There appears no way of liking Kelvin’s comment ‘oh yes,oh yes,’ but consider it very heavily liked.

    Somebody tell william that getting me going on Jeremiah might not be wise. Oh, I know, tell him to read http://lovebloomsbright.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/with-justice-and-with-righteousness/

    Reply
    1. william Avatar
      william

      Rosemary – I did read it and found it intensely moving.
      Probing the intensity of the Father’s yearnings over His ancient people is only matched [fulfilled is maybe a better word]by His Son’s brokenness for us at Gethsemane and beyond.
      Yet that’s the way – the only way – for us ever to have His smile upon us.
      Have you done a reading on Isaiah 5?

      Reply
      1. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
        Rosemary Hannah

        That is very sweet of you william- and actually Is 5 is an excellent suggestion for one of my pieces.
        I would say that, essentially, the yearning of the father and the brokenness of the son are contiguous aspects of one phenomena.

        Reply
  5. David Baker Avatar
    David Baker

    So we have a Prime Minister defending the Bible, and an Episcopalian provost attacking it?

    Reply
    1. kelvin Avatar
      kelvin

      No, David Baker.

      I love the Bible and delight in it.

      Reply

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