• Another Argument for Marriage

    I recently posted a link to a piece by a Labour MP about how he was planning to support moves towards Equal Marriage. Shortly after I posted that, someone kindly drew my attention to another piece by and MP that is worth a read, this time from a Conservative.

    Take a look at this, and the pdf that it points towards:

    http://www.johnhowellmp.com/constituency-campaigns/local-campaigns/gay-civil-marriage/333

    It is from John Howell MP OBE and is a pretty good answer to his local “Christian” critics. It is fascinating to see people working out their own responses to this proposed change and see arguments for it coming from different sides of the political battlefield.

    As with Tom Harris’s piece, I don’t actually agree with all of this. In particularly, I don’t agree with the current moves to make a distinction between civil marriage and religious marriage. We’ve been proceeding on the basis that it is one institution which one can enter in either a civil ceremony or a religious ceremony. It seems to me to be unhelpful for Mr Howell to refer to “Gay civil marriage” as though that were the institution itself rather than the means of entering into the institution. He is also quite muddled when he says:

    Although civil and religious marriages have some similar end results, I regard them as separate acts. In practice, civil and religious marriages are already regarded as two different things in much of mainland Europe and they convey different rights. Indeed, more and more couples here are opting for a civil wedding followed by a church ceremony. For historical reasons, the automatic fusion of the two ceremonies in the UK occurs only where the marriage is conducted by an Anglican priest.

    That may be true in England (though I’m not even sure if it is entirely true there) but it is certainly not true when applied to the UK as a whole.

    However, there’s far more in Mr Howell’s piece that I agree with than that I disagree with. It is particularly interesting to see the case being put by an elected Anglican, coming from a Conservative background. It chimes with David Cameron’s argument that he is in favour of allowing gay couples to wed not despite being a conservative but because he is a conservative.

    All in all, I’d say this paper would be a model for bishops to think about. One does get weary of being told by bishops how supportive they are when they say nothing whatsoever in public. It is possible to express one’s opinions and to do so charitably without the sky falling on our heads.

    Last word to Mr Howell:

    Allowing gay civil marriage is not a fundamental change at all and will, on the basis of evidence from elsewhere around the world, have no effect on the structure of society or on religious marriage. Above all, whichever way you approach this issue, there is no evidence of any harm which such a change would create. I have listened carefully to the views that have been put forward and I have read in detail the points that have been made. However, I cannot help but conclude that no compelling case has yet been made against this rather modest change. Rather, its contribution to a tolerant society at ease with itself is something which all Conservatives should support.

11 responses to “We drink from our own wells”

  1. fr dougal Avatar
    fr dougal

    Excellent! 1st class – wanna be Bishop of Edinburgh?

    1. kelvin Avatar

      So far as I can ascertain, almost everyone wants to be Bishop of Edinburgh.

  2. Kimberly Avatar

    except you, I should think.

    1. kelvin Avatar

      I love what I do. The job of being bishop of anywhere seems to me to be far more grim than most people realise.

  3. fr dougal Avatar
    fr dougal

    Yes, I always think the Bishop’s theme song ought to be “naebuddy loves, awbuddy hates me, think Ah’m gauuny eat worms!”

  4. Joe Avatar

    You took a chance that day Kelvin and it paid off for the good. As a gay man brought up in the RC Church, when I was 17 and very confused I thought that my church and God hated me because of my sexuality (obviously not my choice). I was actually told at that age by a priest in Glasgow that I would go to hell if I had sex with my then lover. I’ve seen many suicides over the years because of the fact that some people I knew could not reconcile their religion with their sexuality. Note I said religion not faith. The God I have a relationship with loves me as I am, whether human beings who claim to know better than me what he thinks of me condemn me does’nt bother me. I’ll let God judge not them.

  5. Stew Avatar
    Stew

    Fine line between drawing from one’s own well and ignoring all the other wells. Quite often I get the feeling that some people believe everything they need, all of the raw materials, are within and I can imagine that too much faith in one’s own well is the cause of much wayward preaching also. I hope that this lesson, which I am sure worked well in your case, would not become a maxim for general teaching and preaching,
    without some safety clauses…. Have I misunderstood?

    1. kelvin Avatar

      Well, Stew, perhaps you have misunderstood, I’m not sure.

      I wasn’t talking about what is necessary and sufficient for salvation, if that’s what you are worried about.

  6. ryan Avatar
    ryan

    Great post!
    Stew: Is the very existence of legitimate ” other wells” not, in and of itself, an argument against the dichotomies and simplistic certainties of the One True Well good old bad old days? I read much of the post as tracing the realisation that “neutral” readings are no such thing, and that the wells of teachers and human authorities are no more (or, of course, less) intrinsically real than our wells. The passage beginning ” I had drunk from” suggests someone adding to their knowledge of wells – not exchanging one set of wells for a single well, and therefore choosing a literally less well-informed world view ;-). Although even that would be a significant experience as other people’s experiences with their own wells might not be things they could usefully communicate to others. The blog post IMHO traces an expansion of (not just) knowledge, the opposite of diminuition from a wider to a smaller view. Although maintaining safety around wells is of course important 😉

  7. Ruth Avatar
    Ruth

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mabroccoli/5578370888/in/stream

    When the sermon was over, he dived round the back, hoping to catch you as you left the laptop. I’m delighted that I’m still reaching a feline audience.

    1. kelvin Avatar

      Thanks Ruth – very good.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Previous Posts

  • Web Outage

    An infuriating three days of web outage. For some reason, my webspace provider suffered a denial of service attack and did not deal with it terribly well. I', glad my livelihood does not depend o­n them.I am unsure whether anything sent to me at anything@thurible.net has got through successfully – anyone who thinks they have…

  • Web-pastorate

    I've now lost count of the number of people who have suggested that I am the person for the Web Pastor job which the Diocese of Oxford are setting up.I suspect that there is an interesting job to be done in the Diocese of Oxford. Whether it is possible to set up a church which…

  • New Bin Days

    Here is a piece of wisdom from Stirling Council, who are changing refuse collection days:For some households their new bin day may be the same as their old o­ne.

  • The Dreamers

    Went to the Macrobert cinema last night to see The Dreamers – set in Paris in 1968. I was reminded that o­ne of the people I trained for the priesthood, who now also works in this diocese, who often said that my true millieu was the Left Bank in '68. I suspect that he thought that I…