• Will you continue?

    The posts that I’ve made on this blog which have attracted by far the most comment in recent months have been those connected with whether baptism must necessarily happen to a person before the Eucharist.

    I think we’ve established that a lot of people care very much about this question. It is my view that baptism should normally precede the Eucharist. It is the view of some people that baptism must essentially precede receiving the Eucharist. I’m quite untroubled by this. Some people are quite troubled by assertions in this area.

    The US-based Episcopal Church is due to have a conversation about this at its General Convention very soon. General Convention only takes place every three years for them, unlike General Synod over here which happens each year. That means they do a lot of stuff when they do meet. My guess is that the communion-baptism question is likely to be one of those things that we will hear quite a lot about. I’d be surprised if they changed their polity on this, but I expect quite a loud attempt to try to shift it. Unlike in Scotland, their canons explicitly ban anyone from receiving communion before being baptised.

    Now, I’ve said most of what I want to say about this before (here and here). I just want to add one thing to that at this juncture.

    It is that there those who want change in this area can draw quite a lot of comfort from most modern baptism rites, including those in both Scotland and the USA.

    The “Baptismal Covenant” – so beloved of American Episcopalians and so glossed over by Scottish Episcopalians is pretty much the same in both countries on this issue, I think.

    In it, we find the following question which is addressed to baptismal candidates and either answered by them directly or on their behalf by parents/godparents:

    Will you continue in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in the prayers?

    Continue!

    Right?

6 responses to “Liturgy Online & the Papal Mass”

  1. stew Avatar
    stew

    I found the Bellahouston event very moving and there seemed to be a lot of fervour – did you watch it?

    I’m not sure of the relevance of comparing the ‘fervours’ but maybe I missed your point.

  2. kelvin Avatar

    Hi Stew – glad to hear that you enjoyed the Bellahouston event. I did watch it, online.

    I was simply drawing attention to the difference between the two papal visits, which no doubt tell us as much about changes in the UK as in the UK Roman Catholic Church since that first visit.

  3. David | Dah•veed Avatar
    David | Dah•veed

    JP2 seemed delighted by the roaring response.

    I noticed that your Queen had a rather sour puss in all the photos that I have seen of her welcome to her fellow Head of State. Was that to be interpreted as any form of commentary from the Supreme Governess of the Church of England or is she soured upon all the world of late. Perhaps she needs more prunes in her diet.

    And El Papa looks like he has just been released from his padded room with those crazy, staring eyes and windblown hair.

  4. Peter Avatar
    Peter

    A reaction to two of the elements of your post, Kelvin

    First, the questions you raise about online liturgy are very similar to the questions I struggled with when I was working in higher education. It’s taken 40 years of trying and we still don’t have a fully satisfactory way of teaching equally to local and remote audiences. Some of the best work is being done in your own city – I could give you some names.

    “a Problem Like Argyll” – depends on where you stand (I hope the locked church was not in Argyll!). If you had been able to join me over the past 3 weeks with faithful congregations (mostly tiny) witnessing in Iona, Ensay and Eoropaidh – as they have done centuries – you too might see it as humbling and encouraging experience. See Bishop Mark’s blog http://www.moray.anglican.org/index.php/bishop/ for a flavour. No hope of seeing them online because two don’t even have electricity, let alone broadband!

    1. kelvin Avatar

      Thanks Peter

      No – last Sunday’s experience was not in Argyll, but somewhere with similar geographic challenges.

      The existance of small vibrant congregations is great. If they didn’t exist there would be no Problem, so its a good Problem to have in some ways! I don’t doubt the existence of the church there. (I’ve had excellent experiences of the church in Argyll and The Isles and, it has to be said, one or two trickier experiences of the church over there on other travels).

  5. […] I want to return to a question that I began to raise a couple of weeks ago regarding liturgy online. […]

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