What is in Kelvin's Head?

Fact checking Sandi Toksvig

04/08/2022
Sandi Toksvig has published an open letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury that a lot of people are getting very excited about as it seems to be a slam dunk refutation of the wicked, homophobic Archbishop of Canterbury.

The only trouble with the letter is that it is based on a number of claims about the Archbishop and the Lambeth Conference that are not in fact actually true.

For example:
- “You and your other religious pals got together at the Lambeth Conference and the main take away seems to be that gay sex is a sin.”
Well, no, Justin Welby hasn’t said that gay sex is a sin and neither has the Lambeth Conference. You can read his actual words and check: https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/speaking-writing/speeches/lambeth-call-human-dignity-read-archbishop-justins-remarks
- It was a sin in 1998 and you just wanted to make clear in 2022 that no-one in your finely frocked gang has moved on from that.”
Well, actually the Lambeth resolution in 1998 that gave cause to all this never mentioned sin. You can check that out here: https://www.anglicancommunion.org/resources/document-library/lambeth-conference/1998/section-i-called-to-full-humanity/section-i10-human-sexuality

The Guardian and some reports on the BBC suggested this week that the conference reaffirmed that gay sex was a sin. But it didn’t. It actually didn’t do that.

What’s more, the Archbishop’s actual words this week both in his letter to the bishops and in his remarks explicitly spoke of those who had moved on from the 1998 resolution. Indeed, he legitimised them (us!) within Anglicanism. Again, check his own words here: https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/speaking-writing/speeches/lambeth-call-human-dignity-read-archbishop-justins-remarks

Speaking of the churches which have moved to marry and/bless same sex couples, he said, “They have not arrived lightly at their ideas that traditional teaching needs to change. They are not careless about scripture. They do not reject Christ. But they have come to a different view on sexuality after long prayer, deep study and reflection on understandings of human nature. For them, to question this different teaching is unthinkable, and in many countries is making the church a victim of derision, contempt and even attack. For these churches not to change traditional teaching challenges their very existence.”

What Sandi Toksvig says is demonstrably the opposite of what Justin Welby did.
- “Seriously, with the state the world is in, that is what you wanted to focus on? You didn’t have other more pressing matters like, I don’t know, war or poverty?”
Actually the bishops spent just over an hour in a two week conference on this topic. The rest of the time has been spent on things like, oh, you know, war, poverty, climate change, safeguarding etc. Again, this is easily found out by reading the Lambeth Calls document – https://www.lambethconference.org/programme/lambeth-calls/

What Sandi Toksvig says is again demonstrably the opposite of what actually happened.

There’s lots to be cross about when it comes to the way the churches deal with sexuality. If it were me, I’d be cross with the C of E bishops staying silent, particularly those who are suspected of being supportive of same-sex couples being able to marry.

But attacking Justin Welby in this way this week seems grossly unfair, not least in that this week he has spoken of the validity of the churches which have started to marry same-sex couples and stood up to those who want such churches to be thrown out of the Anglican Communion or otherwise disciplined. Again, his own words are published. They are easily checked. https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/speaking-writing/speeches/lambeth-call-human-dignity-read-archbishop-justins-remarks

He actually said:

“I neither have, nor do I seek, the authority to discipline or exclude a church of the Anglican Communion. I will not do so. I may comment in public on occasions, but that is all. We are a Communion of Churches, not a single church.”

I’ve been the first to criticise Justin Welby when I’ve disagreed with him in the past. However, I suspect that Justin Welby’s words this week will pave the way, eventually, to new paths of inclusion within the Church of England when the Living in Love and Faith process that all their bishops are clutching to themselves like so many fig-leaves, fails.

The Anglican Communion has, witheringly slowly, moved a few steps in an inclusive direction this week.

Sandi Toksvig’s argument is a straw man.

She’s got things factually wrong.

6 responses to “The Scottish Episcopal Church and the "Listening Process"”

Brian (from Australia)

28/03/2007

The Scottish and Australian churches have in common that most of their efforts (commendable in themselves) have been directed to talking through theological documents about gays and lesbians rather than listening to gay and lesbian people themselves. The Australian statement acknowledges, moreover, that attempts by some dioceses and parishes to conduct ‘listening’ have more often than not resulted in acrimonious arguments between opinionated participants.

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kennedy

28/03/2007

I don’t know who wrote it but according to the ACNS, +Idris approved it.

http://www.anglicancommunion.org/acns/articles/42/50/acns4270.cfm

says
Each of the summaries has been compiled in cooperation with the Primate of that Province. “The summaries have drawn upon public statements and further research,” said the Listening Process facilitator Canon Phil Groves of the Anglican Communion Office. “Each Primate has approved the final text.”

Each Province has submitted reports, statements and papers. In addition, Groves has taken time to speak with Primates and their representatives from each of the Provinces in order to produce these summaries. The Primates asked for the summaries to be “made more fully available across the Communion for study and reflection.”

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Roddy

28/03/2007

I get a bit confused as to what the process of ‘listening’, in any sphere of modern life, means. What it so often seems to mean is, “We don’t really want to get involved or change, but we’d like to appear as if we care, even though we don’t.”

I find the whole concept of being listened to a wee bit patronising, as it has overtones of being regarded as a bit of a nuisance but given a short period of attention to keep you quiet.

I’m not gay but the whole debate about gays and lesbians in the Anglican Communion appears to be about control of a rather large minority in the church more than anything religious or spiritual. A much more daring approach for the SEC would have been to say the subject is a matter of disinterest to the Church; that is the argument of someone’s sexuality is now of minimal relevance to church life for either gays or straights and that there are better and more important things to do.

Or have I got this hopelessly wrong?

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kennedy

28/03/2007

Roddy said:
‘that is the argument of someone’s sexuality is now of minimal relevance to church life for either gays or straights and that there are better and more important things to do.’

I think, and I hope, that that is what the American Episcopal Church is starting to say.

Kennedy

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vicky

28/03/2007

I’m with Roddy on this one…it almost seems as if the Anglican Communion has become a one issue Church…and that issue is sexuality. it would be nice to have this level of debate going on about the beatitudes rather than sexual-attitudes………..

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steg

01/04/2007

I’m not a church goer, but was brought up one and can’t understand why the church – or anyone for that matter – gets so wound up about homosexuality. Dorothy L Sayers had it right when she wrote:

‘As I grow older and older, And totter toward the tomb, I find that I care less and less, Who goes to bed with whom.’

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