• Cathedral as Emergent Community

    Cathedrals are doing quite well.

    Now, as with all generalisations and stereotypes, this is both sometimes true and sometimes not. However, it is something that quite a lot of people are talking about.

    The recent Grubb Institute report had some astonishing statistics suggesting that large portions of the adult population in England had entered a cathedral within the last year. Futhermore, people seemed to think of cathedrals as places which projected spiritual values and were places where the life of the spirit could be nourished and blessed.

    I’m always interested in reports like this. The danger of them is that they make cathedral people smug and non-cathedral folk cross and jealous. However, it is important to try to listen to what is behind these reports of success in order to see whether there is something in the life of cathedral congregations that can be shared in other contexts. I happen to think that there is.

    I was very struck recently by a conversation with someone in St Mary’s. We were talking about the emergent/emerging church phenomenon. There’s lots more to be said about that, but for now, we’ll just live with the idea that it means new, non-traditional ways of being a Christian community – pub church, late night church, fresh expressions of church and all the ballyhoo.

    (I was entertained recently by the idea that I might get a grant for something to do with our regular Sunday morning liturgy by branding it as Mass Church – a Fresh Expressions Experience).

    Anyway, back to the conversation. I was saying to someone that I sometimes wonder whether there might be space for an emergent expression of faith within St Mary’s. Some places have done this quite well, maintaining a fairly trad service in the morning, for example alongside an alternative community late on a Sunday evening. Maybe we are doing this already a bit with the Open Silence (an hour of shared silence on a Sunday evening) that takes place once a month.

    I was musing that I was surprised that we had not got a more confident, weekly Fresh Expression going in St Mary’s and also noting that Scotland does not seem to be particularly fertile ground for it. As with Alpha, Fresh Expressions sometimes seem to be more of a thing south of the border than north of it.

    The person I was talking to said, “Hmm, yes, but you’ve got to remember that you’re allowing the cathedral congregation to be a fresh expression…”

    It was one of the moments where all the lights seem to turn on at once.

    “Yes,” he said, “you’re allowing the congregation to grow using the themes that the fresh expressions people use. Remember that many of us here never expected to find that our faith could be sustained in a traditional church. Many of us thought that we had moved beyond all that. We’re all surprised to find ourselves here.”

    What an interesting thing to think about.

    Here are some of the themes that I think are sometimes floating around the emerging/emergent experience which I think we are playfully engaging with in and around St Mary’s:

    art mattering
    visual stuff being important
    online being integral
    networks of smaller groups making up something bigger
    ability to live with apparent contradictions
    freedom to experiment
    radical hospitality and welcome
    LGBT/Straight inclusive
    embracing tradition without being hidebound
    influence of monastic patterns, rhythms and themes
    not being embarrassed by joy

    Ring any bells with you?

13 responses to “The Comites Christi – Gay Icons”

  1. John O'Leary Avatar
    John O’Leary

    Whether or not these people had sex with each other is unknowable and irrelevant. A gift that they offer to all, of whatever sexual persuasion, is the understanding that people of the same sex can have beautiful friendships marked by tender affection.

  2. Daniel Donaldson Avatar
    Daniel Donaldson

    Jesus had sex, he was human Afterall. I don’t like the way churches destroy the humanity of bible stories, making everyday life and seem dirty and disgusting (sex, being case in point ) replacing it with a self interpreted image of the divine. Maybe if the church recognised and embraced humanity, they would get more folk in the pews, instead of pushing them away.

    1. Jo Avatar
      Jo

      Not every human has sex during their lives. People have, by accident or design, remained chaste throughout their lives. We have no reason to believe that Jesus was married, and likewise we have no reason to suppose that he did have sex. All we have in this regard is an argument from silence. One would expect, however, that were he married it would have been his wife, as well as his mother, whom he commended to John’s care at his death.

      1. Daniel Donaldson Avatar
        Daniel Donaldson

        That’s a matter of debate. Some people can be chaste all their lives. I’m not comvinced that is the case with Jesus. The church likes to destroy humanity, make us feel guilty and dirty about being ourselves. If other heretical writings were allowed to survive, we may have a better account of the human side of Jesus.

        1. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
          Rosemary Hannah

          Actually you would probably have a much more Gnostic Christ in the destroyed writings, other worldly and detailing the orders and hierarchy of angels. In fact the New Testament as we have it is kind to our physical nature, by and large. Whether Jesus was unmarried or widowed or gay we cannot know. We do know that he touched the ‘untouchable’ and was blamed for party going. It is enough to be going on with.

          1. Tiggy Avatar
            Tiggy

            I don’t like the implication in the comment above that someone has to have sex in order to be fully human. Maybe there are less people today who go their whole lives without having sex, but it was very common in the past and not always a choice, certainly for women. Were those people not fully human?

  3. Ann Fontaine Avatar

    Thanks Kelvin – tomorrow on Speaking to the Soul on the Café — Leslie Scoopmire writes about our wanting to know “what” rather than opening up to possibilities — asking “why”. Also are the images available for use?

    1. Kelvin Avatar

      I was unable to identify the origins of the two icons. The middle one came from the wikipedia page on St John and is in the public domain.

  4. Pam Avatar
    Pam

    Thanks for this post. I enjoyed reading it very much. I tend to be a bit less reflective of Bible stories during Christmas days as my large family keeps me quite occupied – and we do live near the beach. I was reading Ruth 1 last night as it happens and I find the story of Ruth and Naomi to be one of love and fidelity. I don’t read their relationship as being of a sexual nature at all, my perspective. I also think black women and white women may read the Bible quite differently.

  5. Jaye Richards-Hill Avatar

    David and Ruth speak to me far more than the examples you draw in the blog post. Not so sure that Naomi and Ruth is all that far-fetched either. If literature reflects life,then why shouldn’t we look for examples of LGBT folk in scripture? It’s pretty much a given that they were there, after all?

  6. Kittredge Cherry Avatar

    I’m one of those lesbian people who gets excited about the same-sex love affirmed in the stories of Ruth & Naomi and David & Jonathan. In fact I blog about them and other “LGBT saints” (loosely defined” through Jesusinlove.org.

    I don’t disagree with your statement, “Instead of asking whether a given character in the bible ‘is gay’ those of us who read from that perspective would be better to ask of all the characters – what are you saying to our lives?”

    However I find that highlighting the same-sex love or “queer” people in the Bible helps catch the attention of LGBT people today who would otherwise ignore the Bible completely.

    Your description of the conversation about John the Beloved Disciple is amazing. I’ve engaged in conversations about this, but it never became anywhere near so detailed as what you describe.

    Today is the feast day for King David in some churches… another date to add to the gay comites Christi. Thanks for a thought-provoking piece, and happy New Year.

    You can find my LGBT saints series at:
    http://www.jesusinlove.org/saints.php

  7. Kate Odling Avatar
    Kate Odling

    I found this interesting. Both Stephen & John were quiet, “soft” men who were sympathetic to people who needed help, I think. There are many gay & straight people who are like them. They are the quiet ones who get on with doing good deeds. I think everyone can appreciate their love

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