• Another Argument for Marriage

    I recently posted a link to a piece by a Labour MP about how he was planning to support moves towards Equal Marriage. Shortly after I posted that, someone kindly drew my attention to another piece by and MP that is worth a read, this time from a Conservative.

    Take a look at this, and the pdf that it points towards:

    http://www.johnhowellmp.com/constituency-campaigns/local-campaigns/gay-civil-marriage/333

    It is from John Howell MP OBE and is a pretty good answer to his local “Christian” critics. It is fascinating to see people working out their own responses to this proposed change and see arguments for it coming from different sides of the political battlefield.

    As with Tom Harris’s piece, I don’t actually agree with all of this. In particularly, I don’t agree with the current moves to make a distinction between civil marriage and religious marriage. We’ve been proceeding on the basis that it is one institution which one can enter in either a civil ceremony or a religious ceremony. It seems to me to be unhelpful for Mr Howell to refer to “Gay civil marriage” as though that were the institution itself rather than the means of entering into the institution. He is also quite muddled when he says:

    Although civil and religious marriages have some similar end results, I regard them as separate acts. In practice, civil and religious marriages are already regarded as two different things in much of mainland Europe and they convey different rights. Indeed, more and more couples here are opting for a civil wedding followed by a church ceremony. For historical reasons, the automatic fusion of the two ceremonies in the UK occurs only where the marriage is conducted by an Anglican priest.

    That may be true in England (though I’m not even sure if it is entirely true there) but it is certainly not true when applied to the UK as a whole.

    However, there’s far more in Mr Howell’s piece that I agree with than that I disagree with. It is particularly interesting to see the case being put by an elected Anglican, coming from a Conservative background. It chimes with David Cameron’s argument that he is in favour of allowing gay couples to wed not despite being a conservative but because he is a conservative.

    All in all, I’d say this paper would be a model for bishops to think about. One does get weary of being told by bishops how supportive they are when they say nothing whatsoever in public. It is possible to express one’s opinions and to do so charitably without the sky falling on our heads.

    Last word to Mr Howell:

    Allowing gay civil marriage is not a fundamental change at all and will, on the basis of evidence from elsewhere around the world, have no effect on the structure of society or on religious marriage. Above all, whichever way you approach this issue, there is no evidence of any harm which such a change would create. I have listened carefully to the views that have been put forward and I have read in detail the points that have been made. However, I cannot help but conclude that no compelling case has yet been made against this rather modest change. Rather, its contribution to a tolerant society at ease with itself is something which all Conservatives should support.

8 responses to “Guides and God”

  1. Tim Avatar

    I like the change from `country’ to `community’ most of all.

  2. PamB Avatar
    PamB

    I still remember my Brownie and Guide promises, but think that the Chorister’s prayer takes a lot of beating.
    Bless O Lord us thy servants who minister in thy temple. Grant that what we sing with our lips we may believe in our hearts, and what we believe in our hearts we may show forth in our lives, through etc, etc.
    Don’t know why this isn’t an essential part of the Voice for life scheme, same as the Brownie/guide equivalents are to their development process.

  3. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    The only one of the above I could take (Pam’s chorister’s apart) without serious finger-crossing is the Rainbow pledge. I MIGHT want to serve my community, but it would usually be by challenging it, and that is, based on childhood experiences and why I never got to play Mary in the nativity play (despite being in every other way well qualified) that is NOT what people want from children, generally. Or adults, by and large.

  4. Robin Avatar
    Robin

    > To be true to myself and develop my beliefs,

    This is meaningless. Beliefs, in themselves, are neither good nor bad. Nor are all beliefs equally valid or moral – people can have horrible beliefs.

  5. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Indeed Robin -and similarly, on occasion setting about me with a mace would have been being true to myself, and not a good thing to do, but THINKING about what one believes, and being kind and helpful … yes, let’s stick with the Rainbows.

  6. Robin Avatar
    Robin

    Agreed. I like the Rainbow pledge.

  7. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Yup – promise less, deliver more. Way to go.

  8. Erp Avatar
    Erp

    Don’t forget these also go with the Brownie and Guide Laws (the Rainbows don’t have a separate law)

    Brownie law
    * A Brownie Guide thinks of others before herself and does a good turn every day.

    Guide law
    A Guide is honest, reliable and can be trusted.
    A Guide is helpful and uses her time and abilities wisely.
    A Guide faces challenges and learns from her experiences.
    A Guide is a good friend and a sister to all Guides.
    A Guide is polite and considerate.
    A Guide respects all living things and takes care of the world around her.

    What I like is the organization consulted with the Guides and even the Brownies when considering changes to the promises and not just those over 18.

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