• On being bought and sold

    I happen to bank with Lloyds TSB and am just learning that the bank accounts that I hold with them are going to be transferred to the Co-operative when the various Lloyds TSB branches are sold, something that has just been announced this morning.

    I have to say I’m delighted. I’d rather bank with the Co-op – it fits in with my values much better than the banks I’m with. I joined the TSB when I was a student because it was at that stage thought to be a socially responsible institution (and in a rather more shallow way, because it had the prettiest branch interior in town).

    What I can’t work out is why I’ve not changed before now. It seems so much easier to be bought and sold than to walk into a branch and close one’s accounts. That makes no sense whatsoever.

    They say that people are more likely to change their religion, change their partner or change their political allegiance than to change their bank account. I know that I’ve been reluctant to shift, but can’t really work out why. That reluctance on the part of so many of us to shift banks must have contributed to the moral stagnation that is currently to be found in the UK banking system. If we were all a bit more active about it, things might be better.

    It is interesting to reflect that I’ve often been asked in church to buy fair trade bananas or such like but I struggle to remember much of a campaign to get me to change my bank. There have been consistent calls for ethical investment to be used by churches themselves and one of the struggles for congregations as well as national churches has been the lack of choice. There simply have not been very accessible branches of banks which seemed to offer more ethical alternatives.

    I hope that by the sale of the Lloyds-TSB banks to the Co, those choices will be increased and that there will be a competition not simply for our money but for our values and morals too.

    There is a campaign to get people to move their money. I feel a complete fraud in even linking to it having not movedmymoney.org at all. However, I’m glad to hear about the changes that are ahead and for once am happy to be bought and sold.

    What’s your excuse?

10 responses to “So, let me get this right…”

  1. Andrew Page Avatar

    I think you have understood if correctly (or at least as fully as it can be understood).

    This just shows how confused the church has become, or how keen it is to tie itself into the proverbial knots to appease both progressives and traditionalists.

    Either way, this position is both absurd and intellectually unsustainable.

  2. Kirstin Avatar

    Kelvin can I ask what submissions you are referring to, is there a new one?

  3. Joan H Craig Avatar
    Joan H Craig

    I think that, once marriage law is passed, current civil partnerships can convert to marriage by filling form, etc. Don’t think they said what happens if the couple want a religious marriage – or did I miss that?
    If our churches persist in saying no to marriage, wouldn’t it be better to do the blessing after they’ve converted their civil status – as in some countries where every marriage is a civil ceremony, and any religious service is done afterwards
    I hope everyone has completed the most recent consultation paper

  4. Rhea Avatar
    Rhea

    I think that the church wants to have its cake and eat it too. It wants everyone to be happy, and this is probably the best way that it knows to do this.

    Is it ridiculous? Of course.

  5. Kelvin Holdsworth Avatar

    There is to be a new one. I’ve not seen it. I understand that the position that the Faith and Order Board is holding to is that “church teaching” is what Canon 31 says – that and nothing else and therefore we are doctrinally against change.

    Is that not the case?

    1. kelvin Avatar

      So far as I understand it, the SEC has not moved in its position since the first response at all.

      The first response included this:
      Question 10: Do you agree that the law in Scotland should be changed to allow same sex marriage?
      The Canons of the Scottish Episcopal Church (Canon 31) state that the doctrine of the Church is that marriage is ‘a physical, spiritual and mystical union of one man and one woman created by their mutual consent of heart, mind and will thereto, and as a holy and lifelong estate instituted of God’. In the light of that Canon, there is no current basis for agreeing that the law should be changed to view marriage as possible between two people of the same sex.

    2. Kirstin Avatar

      The SEC’s last response was in line with what the current law was, indeed still is, this consultation asks a very different question. To which the answer ‘well it isn’t legal, so we can’t say’, (I paraphrase) can’t be the answer this time, can it?
      Of course Canon 31 also states it is a “lifelong estate” but had clause 4 added at a later date to allow for divorce and remarriage.

  6. Rev David Coleman Avatar
    Rev David Coleman

    I was watching the evidence to the Westminster parliamentary committees the other day. In all these things, even from churches which are prepared to be tentatively in favour, or declining to be opposed, what is missing from all the evidence is the human experience of joy and delight that actually characterises a true and good wedding, of any combination of partners. How can we get across the compelling and converting happiness when processes take the form they do?

  7. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Is there any way of getting hold of the board – of ordinary church members getting hold of it and making it listen?? I mean I know my approach tends to lack in subtlety what it makes up for in directness, but then, well, it is very direct.

  8. Kimberly Avatar

    Rosemary, of all the many beautiful sentences you have written, that is the very very best.

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