• Watching the House of Lords

    The internet is a wonderful thing and means you can watch all kinds of things you would never have been able to see in the past. Yesterday, I found myself watching the House of Lords discuss whether or not I was fully human.

    At least, that’s what it felt like to me.

    I’m a great believer in debate and understand why things need to be challenged and fought over and argued through. It is right and proper that parliamentary processes run their course. But can you imagine what it feels like for me to watch that being done over the Equal Marriage legislation. This week it is the Westminster legislation and soon it will be the Holyrood legislation.

    Once you’ve accepted that the right to marry a partner of your chosing without regard to gender is a human right, it is as though people are arguing over your very humanity.

    Some people go mad, of course – both victims and perpetrators.

    In many ways it would be easiest to turn off the stream from the House of Lords. It would be so much easier not to see Bishops from the Church of England saying such calculated and vile things about one.  The script that seems to be coming from them this week is “The church hasn’t been nice to gay people. Perhaps it should be nicer. But I’m still not going to support equality for gay people.”  What makes it so horrible is that it is done with knowledge aforethought.

    However, it is almost impossible not to watch it. It is a fascinating, almost sinister, watch.

    This argument is only going in one direction.

    This video from the Irish campaign for marriage equality still rings true at the moment though.

    [Memo to self: Don’t forget to ask every candidate in next General Election whether or not they are committed to removing the bishops from the House of Lords]

8 responses to “Bin Ladin”

  1. Hermano David | Brother Dah•veed Avatar
    Hermano David | Brother Dah•veed

    I agree with him entirely.

    Then I think my friend that you join him in a conclusion that at this moment cannot be substantiated by fact. There is no evidence that bin Laden was executed. He died in a fire fight when the team tasked with his capture tried to do so. To claim more than the facts currently state is to jump to a conclusion based in personal prejudice.

    Aside from that one discrepancy, I also agree with much of what he said.

  2. Agatha Avatar
    Agatha

    It did occur to me that the UK does public rejoicing (see Friday) better than the US (see this morning).

  3. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    We have no room for complacency – remember ‘Gotcha’ in the Falklands war???

    1. kelvin Avatar

      Yes, that was vulgar too.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    Irrespective of the terrible atrocities masterminded by individuals such as Osama Bin-Laden…and…regardless of the improbable scenario of his being captured alive and put on trial, the rejoicing that followed his death was both tacky and tactless. Comments (albeit by family members of 9/11 victims) alluding to …”God placing him in Hell to rot for eternity…” similarly did nobody any favours. If anything, the backlash from extremists eager to avenge his death (martyrdom?) will now cost further innocent lives. The phrase that jumps to mind is: ‘least said soonest mended…’

  5. ryan Avatar
    ryan

    I’m not sure that pacifist prooftexting is any lbetter than the other kinds. It’s surely morally permissable to celebrate the death of a legitimate, significant military target. And much of the “fanning the flames” rhetoric is inane – people can argue over whether nominally Islamic terrorism can be appeased , but the idea of Al-Queda dialing back their actions or reforming their ethos because (say) the world didn’t overly celebrate killing Bin Laden is ridiculous. Wouldn’t capturing him alive and forcing him to endure infidel courts be even more provocative than a martyr’s bullet and burial at sea?

    1. kelvin Avatar

      I don’t think I like the idea of celebrating the death of anyone, Ryan.

      That’s the kind of thing we find too often in the Bible, isn’t it? And it is vulgar there too.

      I don’t like lynch mob mentality no matter who is on the receiving end.

  6. ryan Avatar
    ryan

    Indeed – I agree that the “get it up ye!” response very much does not represent humankind at its best. But not celebrating *anyone’s* death is quite different, to me, to the most popular current arguments that largely emphasise that Bin Ladin personally is an inappropriate figure for Sic Semper Tyrannis triumphalism.

    I found the Vatican’s reaction interesting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_death_of_Osama_bin_Laden#Europe

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