• Will you continue?

    The posts that I’ve made on this blog which have attracted by far the most comment in recent months have been those connected with whether baptism must necessarily happen to a person before the Eucharist.

    I think we’ve established that a lot of people care very much about this question. It is my view that baptism should normally precede the Eucharist. It is the view of some people that baptism must essentially precede receiving the Eucharist. I’m quite untroubled by this. Some people are quite troubled by assertions in this area.

    The US-based Episcopal Church is due to have a conversation about this at its General Convention very soon. General Convention only takes place every three years for them, unlike General Synod over here which happens each year. That means they do a lot of stuff when they do meet. My guess is that the communion-baptism question is likely to be one of those things that we will hear quite a lot about. I’d be surprised if they changed their polity on this, but I expect quite a loud attempt to try to shift it. Unlike in Scotland, their canons explicitly ban anyone from receiving communion before being baptised.

    Now, I’ve said most of what I want to say about this before (here and here). I just want to add one thing to that at this juncture.

    It is that there those who want change in this area can draw quite a lot of comfort from most modern baptism rites, including those in both Scotland and the USA.

    The “Baptismal Covenant” – so beloved of American Episcopalians and so glossed over by Scottish Episcopalians is pretty much the same in both countries on this issue, I think.

    In it, we find the following question which is addressed to baptismal candidates and either answered by them directly or on their behalf by parents/godparents:

    Will you continue in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in the prayers?

    Continue!

    Right?

8 responses to “Bin Ladin”

  1. Hermano David | Brother Dah•veed Avatar
    Hermano David | Brother Dah•veed

    I agree with him entirely.

    Then I think my friend that you join him in a conclusion that at this moment cannot be substantiated by fact. There is no evidence that bin Laden was executed. He died in a fire fight when the team tasked with his capture tried to do so. To claim more than the facts currently state is to jump to a conclusion based in personal prejudice.

    Aside from that one discrepancy, I also agree with much of what he said.

  2. Agatha Avatar
    Agatha

    It did occur to me that the UK does public rejoicing (see Friday) better than the US (see this morning).

  3. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    We have no room for complacency – remember ‘Gotcha’ in the Falklands war???

    1. kelvin Avatar

      Yes, that was vulgar too.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    Irrespective of the terrible atrocities masterminded by individuals such as Osama Bin-Laden…and…regardless of the improbable scenario of his being captured alive and put on trial, the rejoicing that followed his death was both tacky and tactless. Comments (albeit by family members of 9/11 victims) alluding to …”God placing him in Hell to rot for eternity…” similarly did nobody any favours. If anything, the backlash from extremists eager to avenge his death (martyrdom?) will now cost further innocent lives. The phrase that jumps to mind is: ‘least said soonest mended…’

  5. ryan Avatar
    ryan

    I’m not sure that pacifist prooftexting is any lbetter than the other kinds. It’s surely morally permissable to celebrate the death of a legitimate, significant military target. And much of the “fanning the flames” rhetoric is inane – people can argue over whether nominally Islamic terrorism can be appeased , but the idea of Al-Queda dialing back their actions or reforming their ethos because (say) the world didn’t overly celebrate killing Bin Laden is ridiculous. Wouldn’t capturing him alive and forcing him to endure infidel courts be even more provocative than a martyr’s bullet and burial at sea?

    1. kelvin Avatar

      I don’t think I like the idea of celebrating the death of anyone, Ryan.

      That’s the kind of thing we find too often in the Bible, isn’t it? And it is vulgar there too.

      I don’t like lynch mob mentality no matter who is on the receiving end.

  6. ryan Avatar
    ryan

    Indeed – I agree that the “get it up ye!” response very much does not represent humankind at its best. But not celebrating *anyone’s* death is quite different, to me, to the most popular current arguments that largely emphasise that Bin Ladin personally is an inappropriate figure for Sic Semper Tyrannis triumphalism.

    I found the Vatican’s reaction interesting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_death_of_Osama_bin_Laden#Europe

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