• The Straight Civil Partnerships Question

    The question is this. If civil partnership is opened to straight couples then would someone in such a partnership be eligible to be considered for ordination?

    It is a simple question but carries enormous complexity with it and can help to illuminate where we are in the changing world of legal relationship states.

    I first raised this question in June 2013 in a series of 10 unanswered questions about marriage, most of which remain unanswered even now.

    The thing is, it is entirely possible that some straight couples within the different jurisdictions of the UK may soon achieve their hope to be in civil partnerships. I’m aware of both a legal challenge to the current law that is proceeding and also government consultations coming from both Holyrood and Westminster.

    Now, first of all I need to declare that I’ve always been against extending Civil Partnerships to straight people and thought that the best way forward was to turn all gay couples’ civil partnerships into civil marriages. However that has not happened and so we have a situation where there is a basic inequality – gay couples have the option of either marriage or civil partnerships. And lo, inequality is something that we can’t really tolerate in modern society and so something will need to be done. I can’t really see any alternative to opening civil partnership to straight couples. It seems to me to be only a matter of time and whether I like it or not, that is what will happen.

    So, will someone in a straight relationship who is in a civil partnership be eligible for ordination. In Scotland is it well established that someone in a same-sex relationship in a civil partnership is eligible for ordination.

    This is not merely a rhetorical question. All these kinds of questions affect real people. As individuals and couples try to work out the best thing for their own relationships they are currently left second-guessing how they are going to be perceived by the churches that they may belong to.

    I am aware of straight couples in the church who would be interested in entering a civil partnership rather than a marriage.

    But what’s that about.

    I’ve been opposed to civil partnerships continuing because I saw them as intrinsically products of discrimination. They were a legal confection devised to look like marriage and to onto which gay couples projected familiar signs and symbols to get as near as they could to the gold standard of marriage. However, things have now changed.

    It seems to me that straight couples looking for civil partnerships are clearly saying that they want something that is different to marriage and people like me probably need to get used to the idea that it is just different and not less than marriage now even though it once was.

    The church has not really caught up with modern sexual relations in so many areas. As I listen to people twenty years younger than me their presumption is that serial monogamy is a good thing. They believe in faithfulness. They don’t think cheating is acceptable. However, they also are entering into relationships which they themselves would acknowledge might not last forever. The permanence of marriage is not where they are at and I suspect that the civil partnership option might well appeal to such couples.

    The thing is, marriage carries with it a whole load of presumptions, not least that the end of a marriage is a Very Bad Thing. Divorce still carries stigma with it.

    I suspect that at least some of those seeking civil partnership rather than marriage are choosing to reject the possibility of divorce as they feel that the dissolution of a civil partnership carries fewer negative connotations than being divorced.

    But back to the straight civil partnerships question. Would someone in a same-sex relationship in a civil partnership (presuming that such things will soon become a reality) be able to be ordained in the Scottish Episcopal Church – or the other mainstream churches for that matter?

    If not, why not?

    So far as I can tell, Canon Law is silent on any relationships other than straight married ones.

20 responses to “But when is Harvest? Please, please, when is it?”

  1. Sue Avatar
    Sue

    Knitted food patterns…
    http://www.knitfish.com/12/

  2. Elizabeth Avatar
    Elizabeth

    I really appreciated the Lammastide sermon and service. But I’m not sure if I said so at the time – probably not!

    I’m reminded how important it is to share appreciation as well as (more than!) criticism. Perhaps a new year’s resolution in the making.

  3. Jimmy Avatar

    Harvest.

    Autumn is here
    and there is no harvest
    The trees have leaves but no fruit
    The wheat has ears but no grain
    and if you should return
    I wouldn’t know
    how to begin to explain

    I would offer you a gift
    but of all the things I own
    all I have is my sin
    all I have that’s mine alone

    Spare me – I pray
    another year or two
    if you will extend your hand
    I will fill a harvest basket for you

    I have laboured in these fields
    among this bracken, broom and whin
    and a lifetime to understand
    all you wanted was my sin.

  4. PamB Avatar
    PamB

    Ah, the Grauniad! No – I only see that when I’m in a primary school staff-room, and never had the time to open it.
    But cute pattern – might be the next addition to the Choir dog collection.

  5. Scott from the States Avatar
    Scott from the States

    Over here in the U.S. we have our national Thanksgiving Day (when very few actually go to church) designated to celebrate the harvest, peace and an end to civil strife, and general thanksgiving. Perhaps the UK needs to take a page from the U.S. and Canada and just make it an official government holiday!

  6. Sarah from Virginia Avatar
    Sarah from Virginia

    But what I was taught in school was that the first Thanksgiving was held in imitation of the traditional Harvest celebrations back home in England. Perhaps these were not actual church services? Anyhow I’m now confused!

  7. Tim Avatar

    Incidentally, from a sample of 13 comments made on my photo of a harvest display in church, I deduce people’s expectations include:
    a) it’s long-life products, tinned or pasta, that one brings
    b) giving them to old dears who don’t really need them
    c) it’s something relegated to childhood memories

    Up to you where you draw the churchy/non-churchy line amongst that lot. Maybe it means there’s a *lot* of scope for a message of mission (to folks who normally exist outside the door) and ethics?

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