• Good Vicar, Bad Vicar

    Rather a flutter in the doocot over some comments that Justin Welby made a couple of days ago in an interview on Radio 4 which is worth listening to in its entirety. The quote that has got people talking is this one:

    The reality is that where you have a good vicar you will find growing churches.

    [The Church] needs to be very flexible in how it engages locally and it needs to be very clear about it’s intention of growing its numbers. It doesn’t happen accidentally. All the research we’ve got is that if we don’t actually set out to grow the number of people and draw people to the reality of the love of God in Jesus Christ it doesn’t happen.

    But before we get to that, there were two interesting things about the interview that most people have not picked up on. Firstly the number of times the Archbishop used the word local  in describing the Church of England. Then secondly he explicitly said that it was silly to compare the Anglican Churches to the Roman Catholic Church. Want to know why that is interesting – well check out this piece from Andrew Brown which appeared in the Guardian a few days before under the heading “The Church of England’s unglamorous, local future”.

    So what the Church of England needs to do is to re-establish itself in the ordinary life of the country. Its instinct is obviously to do this with grand gestures, speeches, proclamations and debates, but this is entirely wrong. Instead of pretending it is a single coherent entity with clearly defined opinions and policies – something which simply isn’t true and never will be – it should just forget about the national level and get on with things locally.

    This lesson has already been learned slowly and painfully at the international level. The attempt to present the Anglican Communion as a coherent church that could negotiate as an equal with the Roman Catholics has been an unmitigated disaster. When the resulting posturing was not vacuous it was poisonous, especially about gay people. The Anglican Communion is finished now. The schism happened and nobody cared. Individual churches have flourishing links in the ruins and this is a good and vital thing. But this is nothing to do with the Lambeth Conferences, any more than European trade was nourished by the Holy Roman Empire.

    One would have thought, listening to the Archbishop’s interview that he had been scripted by Andrew Brown. Church is local – we are not the Roman Catholic Church seems to be the line of the week. I hope that someone gets the chance to press the Archbishop on the other elements of Andrew Brown’s thesis – that the schism has happened already and that disestablishment is already a reality.

    But I digress, what about this business of Good Vicars leading to church growth?

    The trouble is, the notion of a Good Vicar bringing about growth does tend to conjure up the idea of Bad Vicars leading to decline. Then people (by which I mean vicars, for vicars are people too, you know) get all upset because they presume that if decline is happening then they must by definition be Bad Vicar.

    It is far too simplistic a way of looking at things.

    It seems to me that what leads to growth is not simply a Good Vicar but good synchronicity between clergy and congregation. Sometimes a congregation gets someone with just the right skills for that moment and also is able to accept them, love them and allow them to lead. And sometimes that doesn’t happen.

    If anyone knew the secret of making it happen between clergy and congregations then there would not be any decline in churches.

    But then decline is caused by a lot more things than Bad Vicars anyway. Demographics are one of the big factors. If people move away from an area, the chances are that a church will suffer. If the people in an area are aging then the chances are that a congregation will be aging too. But, and it is a big but you also have to take into account different ways of thinking about locality and transport. If people are prepared to travel to get to the doctor, supermarket or hairdresser then we can presume that they will do that over religion. Add to that an increasing mistrust of denominations and you have a very complex situation. Bizarrely you still get lots of churches advertising the fact that they care about their denomination right up front on their websites when the truth is, people don’t care about that so much as whether they will find congenial company as they try to grasp the coat-tails of angels.

    In the midst of the fluttering about all this today I’ve been interested in seeing someone teasing on twitter with the notion that there is going to be some new research published soon which appears to suggest that having one priest to one congregation is the most likely situation that will lead to growth. I’ll be very interested in that if and when it comes out.

    And what of Justin Welby’s Good Vicar thesis? It is a surprising thing for him to have much to say about given how little vicaring he personally has done. More than that, it is a situation that is incredibly complicated and which isn’t just about being good or bad. Time, place, company and circumstance matter just as much as innate qualities. And yet….and yet, the truth is, I also know that within what he was saying was something rather important which is that vicars – clergy generally matter. Should they be miserable, unsupported, unloved and sad there is almost no chance of a church in their care thriving. Clergy matter an enormous amount and if one wants churches to grow one does need to think about clergy rather a lot.

    The short version is, clergy matter. And so do bums on pews. The two are related. But oh, oh – it’s complicated.

    Am I right?

9 responses to “Another Day, Another Mission Strategy is launched”

  1. Mark Avatar
    Mark

    three diocesan wishes?
    (i) Scrap every Diocesan body, council and group; let Bishops commend and expound the Gospel, and care for their clergy.
    (ii) Devolve every decision to the locally accountable group; let priests be priests and not bureaucrats.
    (iii) Let go of the Anglican communion for the sake of the Kingdom.

  2. Rev Ruth Avatar

    You know, in all the years I’ve been a member of the SEC I didn’t know about the Diocesan Fairy Wands. But now you mention them I can see that there must indeed be such a thing. In the spirit of openness I would like to see them processed in at the beginning of General Synod with the candles and placed on the Table. Carried by small children, perhaps?

    Do you know if they are different colours?

    And where is The Diocese of Argyll and the Isles’ fairy wand at the moment? Is someone else looking after it and therefore has two? Or is it waiting in a dusty filing cabinet for the drawer to be flung open and set free?

  3. kelvin Avatar

    Please allow me to jump in before anyone from the Diocese Across the Water feels obliged….

    Ruth, you should know by now. It is the Diocese of Argyll and The Isles. Not the Diocese of Argyll and the Isles. Nor indeed the Judean Peoples’ Front.

  4. […] To wrap up Kelvin Holdsworth, Provost of St Mary’s Cathedral, Glasgow explains that as a new day dawns a new mission statement is launched […]

  5. Kenny Avatar

    As the Chair of a Regional Council, and a member of Diocesan Council, I feel well and truly “whupped” by your words, Kelvin. If I were the MDO or the Bishop or Dean, I would feel similarly put down. There are folk who are genuinely trying to put together a strategy for mission that works and is not smothered by cynicism from the outset. I think a bit of support or a word of encouragement or advice may have been a bit more helpful.

    It is true that some Regional Councils may not be working, but that certainly isn’t helped by clergy staying away from them because it’s bad for their health. On the contrary, it needs these priests to be there, to stand up and question what’s going on or not going on and help shape them into a body that works. The theory is a good one, but Regional Councils will fail simply because some folk will share your attitude towards them. As a member of the Bishop’s Staff Group and a member of Diocesan Council, I find it totally incredible that you choose not to attend and disseminate information from these two bodies, and indeed incredible that you have not taken your Regional Council by the scruff of the neck and shown it how it can be more productive and engage more dynamically in current Diocesan policy.

    I sit on Diocesan Council too, and am amazed at the power you think it has! Very often, it seems to me, we cannot make any decisions until they are ratified by the Bishop’s Staff Group, or things come from the Staff Group that we are told to ratify. Debate is sometimes rare and I feel Council is a pretty toothless being, and exists only to ratify what others in more lofty positions want to happen. (Paisley was a prime example of this).

    It’s dead easy to sit there and snipe at those who are trying their damndest to wake the sleeping and encourage growth and life. Instead, we need to pull together and make sure something is put in place that is effective and that we can all buy into.

    Maybe the Clergy Conference will give us a start, but banging in and damaging the process before it has begun is perhaps not the most constructive thing you’ve done of late.

  6. kelvin Avatar

    Hi Kenny – thanks for your comments. I think you are quite right in some of the things you say, though not in others.

    I agree that it was not a constructive way to engage with this to put all of my grumpiness into a blog post and wish now that I had kept quiet.

    There are some things which you’ve not got entirely right though. I’m not a member of the Diocesan Council, as it happens. Also, your assumptions about the way in which decisions were made about Paisley are not quite right. However, learning from what you’ve said, I’m not inclined to post more about that on here, but I will be saying more about it in meetings as appropriate.

    My comments about Regional Councils are influenced by two things only – the local ones which I have been to and the reports from the Regions which are given at Diocesan Council. (I usually find these quite shocking).

    As it happens, I disagree with you about clergy health. Should regional council meetings ever affect the health of clergy, its certainly time to stop going. We don’t think nearly enough about one another’s wellbeing.

    I do however take the general point that my blog post was unhelpful. Though it does still represent my views, I’m sorry that I posted it online in the first place and wish I had thought twice about it.

    I guess lots of us who keep blogs sometimes make mistakes and this one was one of mine.

  7. Kenny Avatar

    Now I feel like a heel! I’m lucky inasmuch as what I post is largely ignored or unread, so I can rant when I like without too many consequences, unless it annoys or causes hassle for the upper echelons in our little Church.

    I know, of course that you are not a member of Council, but you do attend as Provost of the Cathedral and are allowed to contribute.

    You did say that Regional Council were bad for your health and well-being. I am concerned about that, and yes, I wish we were all a bit more concerned for each other, but my suggestion was that you took steps to ensure that these meetings were a little more constructive and actually did what they were set up to do. I agree that reports back to Diocesan Council are often dreadful. I shiver when I hear reported that the highlight was a Coffee Morning held in Little St Reubens, but how do we change that?

    I often think that the old RCC was much much better at disseminating information down to parishes, and every parish felt part of the processes of Church Government, but new models are indeed needed. I think new processes may well emerge from this new initiative.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about the negativity in this particular post. You seem to be redeeming yourself in subsequent jottings.

    The truth is that we need you, and your vision, on board, and the Clergy Conference may well be a good place to begin.

  8. Kelvin Avatar
    Kelvin

    And we’ve got yet another Mission Strategy document to get our teeth into at General Synod! Hurrah!

    And you know what I think of that one?

    Well, let me tell you, I think………

    No, maybe I’ve learnt my lesson.

    For now, anyway.

  9. Kenny Avatar

    I just can’t wait… and I hope tou DO say what you think!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Previous Posts

  • Quality Hotel in Perth

    To Perth on Monday and Tuesday for a meeting of the Information and Communications Board of the Scottish Episcopal Church. It is fascinating being on such a body at a time when the bloggers are in the ascendency. However, you almost have to feel sorry for the Quality Hotel in Perth. Almost but not quite.…

  • A gap

    It seems to me that there is nothing in Canon Law about flower arranging. Am I right?

  • They that were lost are found!

    O happy day! They that were lost are found! Regular readers will know that I swim at the Arlington Baths Club. It is a wonderful and highly particular Glasgow institution. It works like this: I go in to swim, give my baths number to the attendant who hands me commodious bath sheet and towel, I…

  • French Horn needed for Sunday morning

    Hey, anyone know of a French Horn Player who would play at St Mary’s on Sunday morning? I’m after someone who is about Grade 8 standard who would come and join in with a psalm we are planning to do at the 1030 service. Needs to be a competent brass player who is sober enough…