• Conversations with Catholics (and others)

    KH in pulpit by the crucifix

    Over the next couple of weeks, I’m trying something new and a bit different at St Mary’s. I’m offering coffee and a chat to a couple of different kinds of  people who are always present within the congregation. Tomorrow morning (Saturday 9 January 2016) I’m having a coffee morning for people in the congregation who have Roman Catholic roots. There’s always a significant number of such people in St Mary’s and I thought it might be interesting to get some of us together for a chat. In a fortnight’s time I’ll be repeating the exercise with those who have a background as evangelicals. I’ll see how these go and then see whether  there’s any other groups which might want to meet. A  couple of people said that they grew up as presbyterians and they should have a coffee morning but I’m not sure whether that one is one to go for or not. Another possibility that I’ve thought of is a chat with those who fit the Spiritual Seeker profile – those who’ve meditated with Buddhists, banged their drums, sweated in their sweat lodges, spun in circles and knitted their own lentils. We’ve always got a fair representation from that constituency and it might be interesting to gather such people together.

    However, I’m starting with catholics because I know that those who come from a Roman Catholic background have a common conversation though not necessarily a common experience. Some come to St Mary’s who are quite clear that they are Roman Catholics still and that St Mary’s just happens to be a resting place for them on their journey. Others have an articulate conversation about what they have left behind and why they needed to move on from the Roman Catholic church and find something new. Rather intriguingly there’s a mix between those who come to St Mary’s because it allows them to live out their catholicism and those who come because it allows them to say that they’ve moved on from it.

    St Mary’s offers an interesting place for those with catholic roots to worship. For many there’s the surprise that the worship is just like the worship that they have known within Roman Catholicism.

    I once said to a liturgist that it wonderful, amazing and surprising that the modern Roman Catholic Mass was so similar to the liturgy of the Scottish Episcopal Church. “Not amazing at all!” he exclaimed – “we all of us, Romans and Anglicans and all the rest went to the same liturgy conferences in the 1970s”. Sadly in recent years with the new translation of the Roman Catholic mass into (terrible) English, we’ve moved a little further apart again but you can still very much recognise that things are essentially the same.

    I’m soemtimes puzzled by the reactions of Roman Catholics who find themselves present in St Mary’s. We often have tourists who come from Roman Catholics countries who presume that it is a Roman Catholic church. They do so even, in my experience, when a female colleague has been celebrating at the Sung Eucharist. This puzzles me. But also encourages me a little.

    For many from a catholic background we provide what they would have hoped for from their own church – a mass they recognise, social teaching on sexuality, marriage and divorce that is as positive as the catholic social teaching on economics that they believe in and a shared love and devotion to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist alongside a love for his mother too. There are no doubt negatives – the sorrow of families feeling parted by church divisions over the Eucharist. (Everyone is welcome to receive in St Mary’s but that doesn’t begin to scratch the deep irritations surrounding who is and who is not able to receive communion in various churches). There are also confusing messages that the Scottish Episcopal Church sends out about membership that we might talk about. People tend to know they are Roman Catholics and tend not to be entirely sure whether they are Scottish Episcopalians. That could well be part of the conversation.

    I’m looking forward to this and expect I’ll learn things. The invitation is open to anyone who wants to come and have a coffee with me in the Synod Hall on Saturday morning at 10.30.

20 responses to “Lambeth Conference – Some are Welcome in this Place”

  1. asphodeline Avatar
    asphodeline

    Aargh, horrible decision. My first “gut” reaction was no, make a point of not going and make it clear why not. Then I read the responses here and they’ve got a point too.

    I hope you make the right decision for yourself that you feel comfortable with. Interesting point too about the Catholic bit. I don’t consider myself Protestant as such, more a Catholic who is exlcuded from many things Catholic by the Catholic church. I’ve always been a bit confused though!

    Good luck x

  2. kelvin Avatar
    kelvin

    I’m interested that all voices responding so far are female.

  3. chris Avatar

    Does the excess of female voices not simply represent the majority of congregations? Not, of course, of clergy – yet. :=(

  4. kelvin Avatar
    kelvin

    I’ve no idea what other congregations are like – St Mary’s is pretty gender balanced, as was my previous congregation.

    Are there really congregations that are mostly female? How very odd.

  5. Elizabeth Avatar
    Elizabeth

    A convent maybe? Do you have convents in the SEC?

  6. kelvin Avatar
    kelvin

    There are convents, but not terribly large ones.

  7. Eamonn Avatar
    Eamonn

    Not only are all the comments so far from women (so let me make a modest effort to redress the balance), but there are far fewer voices than one might have expected, given the seriousness of this exclusion, which in the long run could affect all Episcopalians and Anglicans worldwide. The notion that one has to ‘qualify’ to attend Lambeth by criteria other than lawful episcopal consecration is a new and disquieting departure. Why are more people not protesting?

  8. vicky Avatar
    vicky

    Thought this might be of interest.

  9. chris Avatar

    I’ve only ever belonged to my current congretation. There are men, but old, unwired ones for the most part.
    I’ve had another thought, though. Maybe women comment because women have been sidelined in the church for 2000 years. Coming out in sympathy, perhaps?

  10. kelvin Avatar
    kelvin

    “unwired men” – what a helpful description.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Previous Posts

  • Online Evening Prayer

    I will be conducting Evening Prayer in a Google+ hangout at 5 pm today. Will be accepting people into the hangout from 4.50 pm. (4.45 pm for those who were there last week). There are 10 places. I will supply the liturgy. You need a webcam and google+ membership, which is free. You need to…

  • Rev.

    I did enjoy the end of season Rev. on the tellybox last night. It was the best of the series, I think. Last night’s episode was not available on BBC2 in Scotland but was on BBC HD – I think it is being screened on BBC2 on Sunday night so some people still have to…

  • Commercial Break

    There now follows a short commercial break. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KjA-N1IrwdA

  • St John of the Cross

    Today is the Feast Day of St John of the Cross. More people in Glasgow will know of Salvador Dali’s interpretation of John of the Cross’s perspective on the crucifixion than with John’s own view itself. This is the little sketch that gave Dali his starting point in producing the monumental work which hangs in…