• Conversations with Catholics (and others)

    KH in pulpit by the crucifix

    Over the next couple of weeks, I’m trying something new and a bit different at St Mary’s. I’m offering coffee and a chat to a couple of different kinds of  people who are always present within the congregation. Tomorrow morning (Saturday 9 January 2016) I’m having a coffee morning for people in the congregation who have Roman Catholic roots. There’s always a significant number of such people in St Mary’s and I thought it might be interesting to get some of us together for a chat. In a fortnight’s time I’ll be repeating the exercise with those who have a background as evangelicals. I’ll see how these go and then see whether  there’s any other groups which might want to meet. A  couple of people said that they grew up as presbyterians and they should have a coffee morning but I’m not sure whether that one is one to go for or not. Another possibility that I’ve thought of is a chat with those who fit the Spiritual Seeker profile – those who’ve meditated with Buddhists, banged their drums, sweated in their sweat lodges, spun in circles and knitted their own lentils. We’ve always got a fair representation from that constituency and it might be interesting to gather such people together.

    However, I’m starting with catholics because I know that those who come from a Roman Catholic background have a common conversation though not necessarily a common experience. Some come to St Mary’s who are quite clear that they are Roman Catholics still and that St Mary’s just happens to be a resting place for them on their journey. Others have an articulate conversation about what they have left behind and why they needed to move on from the Roman Catholic church and find something new. Rather intriguingly there’s a mix between those who come to St Mary’s because it allows them to live out their catholicism and those who come because it allows them to say that they’ve moved on from it.

    St Mary’s offers an interesting place for those with catholic roots to worship. For many there’s the surprise that the worship is just like the worship that they have known within Roman Catholicism.

    I once said to a liturgist that it wonderful, amazing and surprising that the modern Roman Catholic Mass was so similar to the liturgy of the Scottish Episcopal Church. “Not amazing at all!” he exclaimed – “we all of us, Romans and Anglicans and all the rest went to the same liturgy conferences in the 1970s”. Sadly in recent years with the new translation of the Roman Catholic mass into (terrible) English, we’ve moved a little further apart again but you can still very much recognise that things are essentially the same.

    I’m soemtimes puzzled by the reactions of Roman Catholics who find themselves present in St Mary’s. We often have tourists who come from Roman Catholics countries who presume that it is a Roman Catholic church. They do so even, in my experience, when a female colleague has been celebrating at the Sung Eucharist. This puzzles me. But also encourages me a little.

    For many from a catholic background we provide what they would have hoped for from their own church – a mass they recognise, social teaching on sexuality, marriage and divorce that is as positive as the catholic social teaching on economics that they believe in and a shared love and devotion to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist alongside a love for his mother too. There are no doubt negatives – the sorrow of families feeling parted by church divisions over the Eucharist. (Everyone is welcome to receive in St Mary’s but that doesn’t begin to scratch the deep irritations surrounding who is and who is not able to receive communion in various churches). There are also confusing messages that the Scottish Episcopal Church sends out about membership that we might talk about. People tend to know they are Roman Catholics and tend not to be entirely sure whether they are Scottish Episcopalians. That could well be part of the conversation.

    I’m looking forward to this and expect I’ll learn things. The invitation is open to anyone who wants to come and have a coffee with me in the Synod Hall on Saturday morning at 10.30.

20 responses to “What’s really happening to the churches in Scotland”

  1. Josh Avatar
    Josh

    Interesting article. I find the decline of the church in a once heavily Christian and missionary – sending country very sad. I note that the churches that seem to be doing the best are non-denominational churches especially and then traditional churches (like baptists – which I note you don’t mention) that stick to historical teaching of the truth of Christ as the God – man who came to earth, died on the cross for our sins, and was literally and bodily resurrection on the 3rd day and is now seated at the right hand of the Father. The world doesn’t need another social club of nice ethical people. It has those and the church can never really compete. What the church has is the powerful message of grace and redemption and the ability to have a loving relationship with the Creator of the universe.

  2. David Ross Avatar
    David Ross

    The Church of Scotland is now reaping the harvest of what they sowed at General Assembly 2013.

    1. Duncan Cromb Avatar
      Duncan Cromb

      The Church of Scotland has gone all woke. What we have done is an abomination. We have gone with the world. But we are in the world and not off it. We have gone against Israel and now support Hammas who are terrorists. Genesis 12:3 says Curse Israel and we’ll be cursed, bless Israel and we’ll be blessed. You can see the decline, even in the Bristish Empire when we became a non Christian government and against Israel. I wouldn’t go back to the General Assembly after what I heard there as an elder.

  3. Duncan Wright Avatar
    Duncan Wright

    Scotland is coming back to its roots, the Orthodox Church is growing rapidly in scotland, and all over the west. And it is the younger generation coming to Orthodoxy, especially young men. Young people now are exposed to all sorts of degeneracy, vanity and the filth of this secular age. We are living in a time of weak leadership, and lack of the presence of a father figure. The modern churches are conforming to the world, and have completely fallen. There is no masculine presence or backbone, and are completely crumbling to these worldly times. I myself went to My Local church Kirk of Calder, a church of scotland church. In that time there was a vote for same sex marriage to be accepted in the church, which was put in place after a vote of 18-1. Is this any longer a church I dont think so, LORD HAVE MERCY. But we pray for them, and all our brotherhood in CHRIST that we come back to the true faith, the canons of the church, and the teachings of our Holy fathers. That we all are united again.

  4. GW Avatar
    GW

    Why no mention of churches and denominations that are growing?
    The Assembly of God church in Fraserburgh has just completed a new building that can seat 1000 as its old hall could only seat 450. Despite this, it still had to use of booking system and had to run 3 services on a single Sunday a couple of weeks ago to ensure everyone could attend that week.

    1. Mairi Avatar
      Mairi

      how wonderful!

  5. Clare Mccann Avatar

    who says? if two people love one another, let the Church marry them, people interpret Sodom and Gomorrah and the New Testament differently. we legalised same sex marriage in a civil way and its 20 years since civil partnerships and society has survived. what does Joel Osteen do to get more people in his Church than Ibrox or Parkhead can hold? same sex marriage is hardly an issue, the charisma of the preacher is, the Kirk wouldnt take money from the National Lottery to save its buildings or have bars in its halls to sell alcohol, so who is to blame for the decline?

    1. Mike Burnett Avatar
      Mike Burnett

      Those churches and denominations which are seeing growing congregations are not selling alcohol either. I believe that the difference between growing and declining churches is nothing to do with the charisma of the preachers and all to do with the message.

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