What is in Kelvin's Head?

On being bought and sold

19/07/2012

I happen to bank with Lloyds TSB and am just learning that the bank accounts that I hold with them are going to be transferred to the Co-operative when the various Lloyds TSB branches are sold, something that has just been announced this morning.

I have to say I’m delighted. I’d rather bank with the Co-op – it fits in with my values much better than the banks I’m with. I joined the TSB when I was a student because it was at that stage thought to be a socially responsible institution (and in a rather more shallow way, because it had the prettiest branch interior in town).

What I can’t work out is why I’ve not changed before now. It seems so much easier to be bought and sold than to walk into a branch and close one’s accounts. That makes no sense whatsoever.

They say that people are more likely to change their religion, change their partner or change their political allegiance than to change their bank account. I know that I’ve been reluctant to shift, but can’t really work out why. That reluctance on the part of so many of us to shift banks must have contributed to the moral stagnation that is currently to be found in the UK banking system. If we were all a bit more active about it, things might be better.

It is interesting to reflect that I’ve often been asked in church to buy fair trade bananas or such like but I struggle to remember much of a campaign to get me to change my bank. There have been consistent calls for ethical investment to be used by churches themselves and one of the struggles for congregations as well as national churches has been the lack of choice. There simply have not been very accessible branches of banks which seemed to offer more ethical alternatives.

I hope that by the sale of the Lloyds-TSB banks to the Co, those choices will be increased and that there will be a competition not simply for our money but for our values and morals too.

There is a campaign to get people to move their money. I feel a complete fraud in even linking to it having not movedmymoney.org at all. However, I’m glad to hear about the changes that are ahead and for once am happy to be bought and sold.

What’s your excuse?

banks, co-operative, lloyds tsb

72 responses to “Baptism and the Churches”

Erika Baker

19/10/2013

Thanks Kelvin and all for the interesting discussion. As a member of the Episcopal Church in the US, I only ever used the Baptismal Covenant in an argument against the necessity of the proposed Anglican Covenant. For me, the Baptismal Covenant is an assent to the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, so I saw absolutely no need of another covenant. In fact, I don’t see the Baptismal Covenant as something different from the New Covenant.

With respect to whether Baptism or the Eucharist is a/the sacrament of initiation, wouldn’t the answer be both? In the early church, the person was baptized and received the Eucharist during the same service.

Also, I wonder if people from other Anglican churches are aware of the great diversity of views held by Episcopalians in the US. That all the orders of ministry should be open to all the baptized seems to me simply a matter of the justice and equality that all Christians should strive for as members of the Body of Christ.

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Erika Baker

19/10/2013

Sorry, I’m posting on Erika’s computer, but the comment above is by me, June Butler (aka Grandmère Mimi).

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Alan McManus

08/04/2014

It’s so refreshing to read a discussion where everyone’s listening and learning through that dialectical process. Here’s my tuppennyworth: the disparaging mention of magic by churchpeople always makes my hackles go up – mostly as our Christian legacy of persecution of wise healers as witches is still largely unacknowledged and certainly unatoned – but also because the RC in me hears this as a facile Protestant jibe against metaphysics (if you want my views on that buzzword look here: http://robertpirsig.org/Alchemy.htm ) and though Vat 2 officially u-turned on slavery (yay! who says the RC church can’t change, eventually) it didn’t move away from an essentially sacramental view of Christian ministry.
I feel that underlying this discussion may be a difference in sacramental theology. I hold the traditional view that through the creation, the incarnation and ongoing sanctification, the Spirit of God is at work metaphysically in the world and that means neither solely spiritually nor physically but betwixt and between. The RC church is just as guilty of virulent hatred of non-clerical women healers as others but the convivial nature of the relationship which sometimes occurs between Roman Catholic and ‘curandero’ (wise traditional healer) in Latin America is for me an affirmation of the ecological connections inherent in both cosmologies – though often forgotten in the RC church it must be said.
The part of the SEC liturgy I find most alienating is ‘Lord unite us in this sign’. This speaks to me of cognition not communion. In these words I feel the lack of belief in a metaphysical reality. I feel that this discussion may have brought up a similar divide in concept about baptism: is it or is it not efficacious?

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On being bought and sold

72 responses to “Baptism and the Churches”

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