What is in Kelvin's Head?

How were my Predictions last year?

31/12/2024

Time to check out how I did with the predictions I made on New Year’s Day 2024.

1 General Election in UK – Labour landslide. PM – Sir Keir Starmer. (No great change in policies from the Tory government that Labour will replace).

Yes – fulfilled in every way.

2 US politics will continue to be dominated by Donald Trump

Yes

3 In the US Presidential election in November there will be victory for the Republican Party.

Yes

4 AI/Deepfakes have a significant effect in electoral politics.

Not really – AI/Deepfakes are present but there’s no real evidence that they swung any particular election

5 Conflicts in Gaza and Ukraine unresolved by end of 2024.

Alas Yes

6 No progress for those wanting marriage equality in the Church of England.

Alas Yes

7 Twitter goes bust or is sold or both.

Not quite. Twitter feels pretty wounded but still Xists.

8 The world will be warmer in 2024 than ever before.

Yes

9 Another country will join Nato.

Yes, Sweden in March.

A new agreement is reached between the UK and Greece on the Elgin/Parthenon Marbles that opens the door for at least some of them to be displayed in Athens.

Close but no cigar.

Not a bad year – 7 direct hits with a few misses.

11 responses to “Equal Marriage – Questions people haven’t thought of #1”

Stewart

01/08/2012

As I see Scottish Law, all partnerships are registered by the Civil Authorities. In the case of Glasgow you have to go to Martha Street and fill in the appropriate paperwork. All varieties of couples can have a civil partnership officiated by a Civil Registrar.

However only Man-Woman partnerships can be solomnised in a religious setting. Kelvin, you should be allowed to solomnise all partnerships (Man-Woman, Man-Man, Woman-Woman) in St Mary’s.

Reply
william

01/08/2012

Do we mean a ‘moral difference’ in the sight of God, or in the eyes of a nation at a particular point in history, or in the understanding of practising homosexuals, or in the perspective of a christian church?
Without defining the audience ‘moral difference’ is a slippery term!

Reply
kelvin

01/08/2012

In this case, all that I’m interested in is what the Scottish Episcopal Church thinks it is doing.

Reply
Erp

02/08/2012

How does the SEC consider opposite sex couples who get a civil marriage and then years later want something in church?

Now from my initial humanist point of view there has been no difference in moral status between a civil partnership, a civil marriage, or exchanging equivalent promises in cases where a legal ceremony is not possible (e.g., slaves in times past or same sex couples in many places) though there are legal differences.

Reply
kelvin

02/08/2012

The SEC regards couples who get married in a civil ceremony and couples who get married in a religious ceremony as being equally married. There is no distinction between them

This is, I think, different to the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland.

Reply
1. Seph
  
  02/08/2012
  
  If the SEC opts out of the same-sex marriage legislation, will it recognise civilly-wed same-sex couples as being married? If not, then the hypothetical same-sex couple are not married in the eyes of the church. If the SEC decides to recognise same-sex marriages but won’t perform them, there is no difference and we should stop messing around.
  
  I imagine people going from civil partnership to marriage will make as much or as little of a big deal of it as they like.
  
  Reply
Rosemary Hannah

02/08/2012

For me the question is intent – if the couple intend to be married but are denied by a civil authority, they are married in the eyes of God. However it is very plain that currently the law wishes to consider they are NOT married, and it is a hard thing indeed to keep your end up against the law. Therefore they ‘need’ to be married to affirm to themselves and the society that they are indeed married.

The question is ‘what makes a marriage: set promises made according to form: the understanding between the two marrying: the understanding of society of what marriage is.’ In practice it is very hard indeed to have a marriage without all three components.

CU was designed to have no promises, and no understanding by society that it was marriage. Compassionate registrars saw at once that the former was impossible. Generally, society has not fully embraced the idea that the latter is fully true. They usually think it is just near enough. Some people then think it is near enough to consider it marriage, and others that it is quite near enough, thank you. Hence those pressing for equal marriage – to make it clear once and for all.

Reply
1. Geoff
  
  03/08/2012
  
  Having been vexed by this question myself, I think Rosemary is onto something. After all, the ministers of marriage are the couple. I have long advocated that couples denied marriage “for fear of the religious authorities” exchange their vows and present themselves at the altar rail during Benediction of the MBS for a guerilla blessing.
  
  Reply
Rosemary Hannah

02/08/2012

Interestingly, the church is still in places reluctant to marry some divorcees (where, for instance a new relationship has been formed before the marriage ended, and the new relationship killed the old) but once civilly married – married they are.

Reply
1. william
  
  02/08/2012
  
  In the eyes of God?
  
  Reply
Rosemary Hannah

03/08/2012

@william. I am agnostic on the question of whether people whose adultery caused the end of an earlier marriage are married in the eyes of God, if that is what you are asking. It is an issue on which I have to admit I am incapable of dispassion. Maybe they are. God is endlessly forgiving and compassionate. It will hardly be news to anybody that I do not always rise to God’s standards.

I am sure that faithful gay couples who consider themselves married and have taken all the legal steps they can to be as-close-to-married ARE married in the eyes of God, but this latter belief will hardly come as news to those who know me and my family.

Reply