What is in Kelvin's Head?

  • Biblical role models for marriage – any suggestions?

    We had such an interesting discussion last night at the cathedral’s LGBT Group (aka Gay Club).

    The conversation was about marriage, looking at it from a biblical, social and personal point of view rather than talking about the current attempts to change the law.

    The question that we really found interesting was how many positive role models of married life we could find in the bible.

    The truth is, we struggled far more than we imagined we would.

    Suggestions included:

    • Ruth and Boaz – but we know far more about them before they were wed than after
    • Mary and Joseph – again we don’t know much about their married life apart from the fact that they lost their son on a day out
    • Adam and Eve – well, we are in the mythic here and there’s a lot of squabbling about blame to wade through before we can really talk about relationships.

    So, your suggestions please. Can you think of good role models for marriage from the bible? Who would you nominate?

    ,

9 responses to “Never mind the quality, feel the width”

  1. chris Avatar
    chris

    Gosh, you’ve hit an apparently tender spot there. As someone who was originally brought into the church – and I mean the whole shebang, not just a particular building or denomination, though that was important too – by beautiful music and dignified liturgy, I have been asking for an aspiration towards excellence for the past 30 years or so. But is it not the case that for many people that smacks of an elitism that sits ill with their idea of ‘being church’ (a vile phrase, therefore I use it not)? The idea that as church is for all, you’re not allowed to look for certain standards in music, in reading, in serving …
    I could go on, but I don’t need to. You’ve said it. Go for it! (And please delete the earlier comment, in which I was so carried away by my parenthesis that I forgot to finish the original clause)

    Reply
  2. kelvin Avatar
    kelvin

    I was thinking about all of this yesterday. It is choir holidays at the moment and yesterday the choir were singing down in Englandshire. It might have been expected to be a bit of a flat day here. However, there was none of that. We had a good turnout and wonderful worship both morning and evening. No sign of a summer slump and it was obvious that people came expecting something good even without the regular musicians.

    Summer Sung Evensong last night attracted 37 souls. That’s 35 more than might have been expected to turn up seven years ago.

    Now, we’ll all be thrilled when the choir come back and put the icing on the cake in a few week’s time – they are full of fabulousness, but yesterday was good proof that we are not simply a one-trick musical pony.

    Reply
  3. chris Avatar
    chris

    Well as you know we don’t have a choir in my church, tho’ many years ago there was a great one with children and adults. But we can still produce a frisson, and the reaction of visitors bears that out; it’s just that not everyone seems to see what produces said frisson.(I know. It’s not just us, but …)

    Reply
  4. Fraser Pearce Avatar
    Fraser Pearce

    Excellent points and something of an encouragement to me at the moment.

    The new set up is much better on my phone, by the way.

    Fp

    Reply
  5. Akma » This, and This

    […] it for six, it’s not just cosy log-rolling for me to affirm his point. This morning, Kelvin says what great many people won’t: that excellence and forethought and diligence and attention really do make a tremendous difference […]

    Reply
  6. Rosemary Hannah Avatar
    Rosemary Hannah

    Preaching. I have a wealth of experience of hearing terrible preaching, and a wealth of hearing good. The gulf between the two is immense. I have NO IDEA how one can persuade those who cannot, really really cannot, preach to do something to raise their game. I think you hint the way is probably to persuade those who can, REALLY can to raise their game too. HOW? How when the attempt to hold a music day fails,and people generally find that a much easier thing to approach? Teaching preaching is something at which I am good – if you ever find a way, I will come along and help coach.

    Reply
  7. Quality worship | Covenant

    […] worship Posted by Fr. Sam Keyes on July 23, 2012 | 0 comments Kelvin Holdsworth, Provost of St. Mary’s in Glasgow, wonders why more people don’t consider the obvious […]

    Reply
  8. chris Avatar
    chris

    Couldn’t agree more about the music days either, Rosemary – we’ve held several singing workshops here, and unless they are tied in to fundraising and a BBQ the attendance tends to be thin and the usual suspects – who can generally sing quite respectably anyway – turn up.

    Reply
    1. Kimberly Avatar
      Kimberly

      but thankfully, you do a really good BBQ so there is hope yet.

      Reply

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