• You can’t bomb people into being nice Westerners

    In a way, watching the debate yesterday in the House of Commons on whether the UK should join in with Air Strikes against the so called Islamic State felt different to me from the last times we’ve had similar debates.

    This time I felt I was open to persuasion. As the debate began, I hadn’t made up my mind what I thought was right. I accept the arguments that such action this time is legal. (In the past I’ve marched against UK involvement convinced that it was illegal and wrong from the outset). I’m not a pacifist and don’t automatically assume that using force is wrong. That means that each time I need to be persuaded.

    As I’ve said before, I once had aspirations to be a Member of Parliament and when crucial votes come around I find myself inevitably absorbed by them wondering how I would have voted. In this case, I’m sure that I would have entered the chamber undecided and left having firmly made up my mind.

    The more speeches that I heard in favour of military action, the more troubled I was about it. In particular, I was troubled to hear the Archbishop of Canterbury throwing his lot in with the government and advocate new bombing missions.

    It seems to me that the following points remain unanswered.

    • Likelihood of success.  This is a key point for anyone trying to assess using Christian criteria whether military action is just. How many bombs do we need to drop before we realise that air strikes alone are not sorting out the conflict in Iraq? The lessons of the past do not point to an easy or quick solution. I was particularly alarmed by the suggestion by the Prime Minister that this could take three years. I don’t believe any0ne can see what lies ahead in three years time in Iraq. These are not air strikes – this is a war. What’s more I don’t even know how we will judge success.
    • We are not fighting a conventional enemy but a set of ideas. Bombs do not destroy ideas they disperse them. The “Islamic State” people may claim to have territorial claims to a part of the world but that doesn’t mean we are fighting another state in the way that the West understands that. Controlling territory on the ground doesn’t mean that you control people’s minds. ISIS and al-Queda are as much a set of ideas as an army controlling a people. We need concrete strategies for making lives better and the underlying philosophical principles that are behind the terror attacks need to be taken to pieces and few of us know how to do that.
    • What about the innocents? In this week when we’ve remembered St Adamnan again in the church, again we are reminded that attacks which kill or harm the innocent are never justified. Collateral damage is terrorism by another name.
    • Finally, that you can’t bomb people into being nice Westerners. It seemed to me that many in the House of Commons were responding to the barbarity of recent hostage beheadings with the notion that we can somehow fly 6 RAF aircraft over Iraq, drop some bombs and stop people being beastly. It won’t do. You can’t bomb people into being nice Westerners. If there are any solutions they will be far more complex than what is currently proposed.

    For all these reasons, though I would have gone into the chamber undecided, by the end of the day I would have made my mind up.

    I would have voted against military action.

9 responses to “The Marriage Business”

  1. Rhea Avatar
    Rhea

    I thought that what the government actually said was more of a “obviously with the current canon laws in place, the C of E and the Church in Wales won’t be able to opt in to marriage equality because their canon laws clearly state that marriage is between one man and one woman.”

    To me the ultimate issue is with the churches and their canon laws that need to be changed, no?

    1. Rhea Avatar
      Rhea

      I just saw this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20680924

      What in the world is the government thinking?!

      1. kelvin Avatar

        Here’s the original announcement – quite clear that it isn’t just about Canon Law. They really are trying to make it illegal for the C of E and Church in Wales to opt in.

        http://www.culture.gov.uk/news/media_releases/9585.aspx

      2. Beth Avatar

        The irony that that Department of Culture page is titled “Marriage For Everyone” absolutely knocks me down.

        I think that this more than anything else that has happened in equal marriage legislation this year has a real chance of being ruled illegal under Article 9 of the Human Rights Convention.

  2. Peter Higson Avatar
    Peter Higson

    Church of England clergy, and Church in Wales clergy, may take note of Giles Fraser’s suggestion: “So it will now be illegal for me to marry two people who live (with) each other. Now there is a cause worth going to prison for.” as report in the Independent.

    1. kelvin Avatar

      Yes – I saw that tweet from Giles. Whilst supporting the sentiment, I suspect that he is going to have to work quite hard to find a judge willing to send him to prison for it.

  3. Martin Reynolds Avatar
    Martin Reynolds

    Yes, bizarre is the right word!

    When the Church in Wales was disestablished back in 1920 it retained its priveledges and responsibilities with regard to marriage.

    So, parishioners’ absolute legal right to be married in the parish church remains, as does the automatic right of Church in Wales clergy to be able to conduct marriages by virtue of their ordination alone.

    We recently amended our requirements for residence to stay in line with the CofE, while they were able to do it through General Synod we had to resort to a Private Bill.

    It now seems there are to be no EXTRA hurdles required by these two Churches, other than the separate Acts of Parliament they would need to change their current practice following agreement of General Synod or Governing Body.

  4. Ali Avatar
    Ali

    “if your denomination cannot or will not opt in then the time has come for you to stand up for what’s right. If you support equality, do something about it and show us what you are made of.” you not doing any more weddings until the SEC opts in then. Kelvin?

    1. kelvin Avatar

      I think it quite likely that should the Scottish Episcopal Church chose not to opt into the coming legislation then I would come to be view that the time had come to stop signing marriage papers. That is not the same thing, of course, as stopping doing weddings.

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